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Old Apr 18, 2012, 08:56 AM
Z06 Tony's Avatar
United States, NY, Rochester
Joined Sep 2008
7,050 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d View Post
Fail Safe issue and suggestion: it looks like Naza descents when fail safe is triggered. That works nicely. However, when landed, either successfuly or tips over, motors keep running. This is bad IMHO.

So, what I suggest to Naza developer is to introduce motors cut off if:
- Naza is in fail safe
- Naza's slope angle is some insane value e.g. more than 70 - 90 degrees, since I think there is less damage done with motors off in this case

As I understand it, Naza "does not know" it has landed already so it keeps motors on, or I really do not understand the reason why motors are running after landing. Maybe Naza "can know" it has landed since there is no change in Z axis and also baro should stop giving any remarkable height change....

Just some ideas... Sidney, are you there? Can you tell us why Naza does not stop motors after auto landing? Thanks!
Its very simple to dis-arm the motors as its landing.
I have FS autolanded my customer builds over and over and over and NEVER had the problem you are having.
Also FS is not a novelty and is for emergency situations only.
You should be in control of your multi at all times.
Maybe you have an issue with your build and or tuning if its tipping over.
Also if you are having this problem you could very easily switch FS off and take control of your multi before it lands.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 09:06 AM
Registered User
Slovakia
Joined Nov 2010
1,220 Posts
I agree with you. My quad is DIY and it flies great with Naza. I have high landing gear (because of camera mount) with quite long skids but if it does not land completely (or at least very well) leveled it can actually tip over, which is no big deal (if I stop motors).

I am not using FS for landing as I am quite experienced pilot of multirotors and honsetly, flying Naza in Atti is really for kids... it is so easy.

I was just testing FS auto landing by switching off my TX. I was just curious. So, all I suggest is to stop motors in case of that. I think it can happen to others (and it did, see a couple of posts back), especially when it has some forward/backward/sideways movement and high landing gear.

If they do not implement this, so be it, I can live with it, probably will never trigger FS for signal loss, I just thought when it has FS auto landing, then it could have another safety measure. I do not think it is good to run motors when quad is upside down, and Naza "definitely knows" it is in FS and upside down... That is all.

The most probably two lines of code would make it, like:
if(isFailSafe && angle>70) disarm = true;
... or something like that...
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 09:10 AM
LSF 004 - AMA 5055
bobandris's Avatar
Saratoga, CA USA
Joined Dec 2000
587 Posts
Understanding the Naza VU

I've been looking at info on the dji F450 and the Naza FC. I can't find any real info or user guide for the Naza VU; in particular for the "LED" 4-wire connector and the "V-SEN" 3-wire connector. Does the 4-wire "LED" connector plug into the 4-pin "LED" socket on the Naza MC? Where does the 3-wire "V-SEN" connector go? And for that matter what is supposed to plug into the 4-pin "EXP" socket on the Naza MC?

I also looked at the F450 board layout and saw a + and - pad, which I assume is for the red and black wires coming from the VU or is it for a battery connector, too, OR is it for both? Finally, with the "LED" connector from the VU, plugged into the "LED" socket in the Naza MC, are there pads that you can connect LEDs to, and if so what do they put out? If any of this is covered in RCGroups or RCUniverse or HeliFreaks already? If so, could you point me to it.

Thank2,
Bob
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Denmark, Central Denmark Region, Aarhus County
Joined Apr 2012
128 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor73 View Post
Did a quick search and it seems NAZA as well as WKM are good up to winds of only 28km/h or 17mph.
And the risk of water diving is not small, specially while you are learning to fly and still testing all you gear to have it secure working minimizing all possible failures.
I'm planing to do some surf filming as well as other sports on water and land, but kiting and windsurfing I believe is way over it's capacity to cope with the strong winds involved.
Who knows, maybe a really good pilot in manual mode can handle. But then I think there are other more suitable flight controles for such a radical flight that will probably also require a big air frame for stability.
For sure water sealing the electronics is also a good idea just in case (salty moisture and electronics of any kind don't go well together), but remember you need to get air pressure to have altitude stabilization with NAZA and WKM. Maybe a valve or something like could work in letting the air pass but sealing for water.
And don't forget to add floaters as in case of a splash you probably has no intention to beat James Cameron filming blind fishes at the bottom ocean!

I think it will take a few more years of development until we see a multi-rotor capable of coping with fast water sports requirements, but if Traxxas can do waterproof RC cars, why not ?
That will surely be the next level of achievement for this things and one day they will come!
Ty for your reply.
I am not tottaly retarded ;-O
So i know the first many runs will be in controlled inviroments, no wind low altitude... and so on...
I just have prospects of flying this in some winds later on, when i feel comftible with it.
how about DJI - S800 is it availible yet ? What are the prices ?

-Mich-
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 09:25 AM
Z06 Tony's Avatar
United States, NY, Rochester
Joined Sep 2008
7,050 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d View Post
I agree with you. My quad is DIY and it flies great with Naza. I have high landing gear (because of camera mount) with quite long skids but if it does not land completely (or at least very well) leveled it can actually tip over, which is no big deal (if I stop motors).

I am not using FS for landing as I am quite experienced pilot of multirotors and honsetly, flying Naza in Atti is really for kids... it is so easy.

I was just testing FS auto landing by switching off my TX. I was just curious. So, all I suggest is to stop motors in case of that. I think it can happen to others (and it did, see a couple of posts back).

If they do not implement this, so be it, I can live with it, probably will never trigger FS for signal loss, I just thought when it has FS auto landing, then it could have another safety measure. I do not think it is good to run motors when quad is upside down, and Naza "definitely knows" it is in FS and upside down... That is all.
No prob,
You should setup a switch to activate FS then you wont have to turn your TX on and off.
Here is what I noticed.
If its windy then FS would not be a good idea with your tall LG unless you were to switch it off right before it landed and take control.
With no LG it would do better as you know.
I think you can set your throttle in FS so it dops faster.
My buddy set his at 10% and it dropped a little too fast but not crash. Havent played with it much(dont even think it) but will when I get a chance.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 09:42 AM
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rcroadtrain's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Marsfield
Joined Feb 2012
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandris View Post
I've been looking at info on the dji F450 and the Naza FC. I can't find any real info or user guide for the Naza VU; in particular for the "LED" 4-wire connector and the "V-SEN" 3-wire connector. Does the 4-wire "LED" connector plug into the 4-pin "LED" socket on the Naza MC? Where does the 3-wire "V-SEN" connector go? And for that matter what is supposed to plug into the 4-pin "EXP" socket on the Naza MC?

I also looked at the F450 board layout and saw a + and - pad, which I assume is for the red and black wires coming from the VU or is it for a battery connector, too, OR is it for both? Finally, with the "LED" connector from the VU, plugged into the "LED" socket in the Naza MC, are there pads that you can connect LEDs to, and if so what do they put out? If any of this is covered in RCGroups or RCUniverse or HeliFreaks already? If so, could you point me to it.

Thank2,
Bob
yes, the 4 wire plugs into the NAZA, just above the receiver input.
the 3 wire plugs into 'x3' on the NAZA.
not sure about the "exp", couldn't find anything in the manual,

the + & - is for the power in to the VU, and also into the ESCs, and the battery.

as for connecting more/extra leds to it, I dont think so, its only for connecting to the VU for the 3 colour status led on the VU itself.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:00 AM
Suspended Account
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2012
3,265 Posts
Flight #2 I let her rip! I went to one of our local large area parks this morning. I set the F450 down and took off!. I let it climb high about 400 feet above my posision. We have no wind today and the F450 was stable in its high flight. I tested the controls in all directions and everything went smooth as silk!. I was using my 3s 25C 2200mAh battery so I only flew about 6 minutes before landing and going home. I wonder if the new battery I got yesterday will fly longer? . What do you all think I was hoping for at least another 2 minutes or so here are the other battery specifications-Minimum Capacity: 3000mAh
Configuration: 4S1P / 14.8v / 4Cell
Constant Discharge: 35C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 45C
Pack Weight: 364g
Pack Size: 139 x 43 x 27mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector Anyway, I quickly decended and 5 feet or so above the ground I guned the throttle so it would hover then gently put it down like a feather. I have to say the NAZA is wonderfull! (I AM HOOKED!)
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:10 AM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
Vantasstic's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Sep 2003
18,114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06 Tony View Post
Its very simple to dis-arm the motors as its landing...
That's why I fly with Immediate cutoff...I chop throttle, the motors stop...EXCEPT in failsafe autoland. The manual clearly states the motors stop a few seconds after autolanding...I've never had them cut off in testing. I do agree FS if for emergency. It'd still be nice if the Naza did what the manual says it'll do...or what the exact setup is required that allows it to do what it says it does.

Tony, please don't think I'm trying to bash at you (if it sounds like that above). I'm really bashing at DJI for their documentation on capabilites that don't seem to do what their documentaion says. I still think the Naza is a fine board for beginners and FPV. I'm still hopeing to see more 'advanced' configuration in the firmware...along with more frame types, in the future.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:11 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2011
110 Posts
happy to hear that goldsworthy...i am having problems getting my motors to arm...nothing is working.. i am annoyed because i paid a DJI rep to build this for me and now he is NOT available...in vegas...
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:12 AM
Multi rotors=No Paycheck left
SDSURFnGLIDE's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2011
3,349 Posts
@Golds....Glad to see you got her up in the air!! See it was worth the wait huh? its a dream to fly...

now if i can only get mine to fly on my new frame...getting frustrated...i know it works , but i think the issue might be with the esc's on the new frame...going to try and calibrate them again today when i get off work...this time using the throttle channel instead of a programming card...
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:15 AM
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy24 View Post
happy to hear that goldsworthy...i am having problems getting my motors to arm...nothing is working.. i am annoyed because i paid a DJI rep to build this for me and now he is NOT available...in vegas...
Why don't you ask forum member Vantastic I think he lives near you. I hear he glues quarters on the bottom of things he puts together so I know he has to be a rich man! (or at least owns a lot of slot machines) he probably would help ya no charge out of the kindness of his heart.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:17 AM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy24 View Post
happy to hear that goldsworthy...i am having problems getting my motors to arm...nothing is working.. i am annoyed because i paid a DJI rep to build this for me and now he is NOT available...in vegas...
How far are you getting before you encounter a problem? I went back a couple pages and didnt see any other posts from you but would love to help if I can.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Joined Mar 2012
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So, how much flight time should I get with my new battery?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:19 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
Flight #2 I let her rip! I went to one of our local large area parks this morning. I set the F450 down and took off!. I let it climb high about 400 feet above my posision. We have no wind today and the F450 was stable in its high flight. I tested the controls in all directions and everything went smooth as silk!. I was using my 3s 25C 2200mAh battery so I only flew about 6 minutes before landing and going home. I wonder if the new battery I got yesterday will fly longer? . What do you all think I was hoping for at least another 2 minutes or so here are the other battery specifications-Minimum Capacity: 3000mAh
Configuration: 4S1P / 14.8v / 4Cell
Constant Discharge: 35C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 45C
Pack Weight: 364g
Pack Size: 139 x 43 x 27mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector Anyway, I quickly decended and 5 feet or so above the ground I guned the throttle so it would hover then gently put it down like a feather. I have to say the NAZA is wonderfull! (I AM HOOKED!)



Ok about time you fly that bird gold congrats.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:20 AM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
So, how much flight time should I get with my new battery?
Fly 6 minutes, plug into your charger and check how many mah is left.... add a minute or two depending on % left.... plug into charger and check how many mah is left. Thats what I do with ALL new batteries. Just because it's a similar C rating and similar mah as my other batteries, you just never know until it is tested. Remember to recheck these numbers once you go from hovering and getting comfortable with your new quad to more aggressive flying.
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