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Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:33 PM
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GGoodrum's Avatar
South Orange County, CA
Joined Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by fcanonp View Post
Hello!

Plz help, can I use this system in a X650 Quad?

Thanks!
Best regards.
Yes, but it might need a different mounting plate, or maybe an adapter. I do have an XA Hexa and my intent is to try to fit one of these at some point. For now, though, we are concentrating on making this work on the DJI F450 and their upcoming hex design.

-- Gary
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:34 PM
aka Helidaho
AeroVideoUS's Avatar
United States, ID, Boise
Joined Jun 2010
2,650 Posts
Well now I want one even more

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
Actually, what I've found is that for direct drive-type mounts, even with 12-bit, ultra fast servos, when small movements are made, there is a detectable amount of stairstepness/lack of smoothness. I've tried Align DS610s, Savox 1290s, Hitec HS-7940TH and HS-7966HBs, and they all just don't quite have enough resolution, even at 4096 bits, to have really smooth movements. I've down a couple of belt drive gimbals now, but with relatively modest 2:1 reductions. This is enough to give buttery smooth movements, without sacrificing speed, like some of the "pro"-type mounts do. One other thing we are doing with this new mount is we've switched to some specially programmed Hyperion digitals that are 12-bit and still ultra fast. We program them to have custom throws, that match the belt drive, and the dead band settings are optimized for use with the Naza and WK-M outputs.

Many her have demonstrated getting very pro-level, smooth videos, but a lot of this, in my opinion, is because they are accomplished pilots who practice flying very smoothly. That's great, but my goal is to get great video, without having to worry too much about what the platform is doing. In order to do that, you need to have a very fast reacting gimbal that is tuned to the gimbal outputs. I've already been able to tune a gimbal in a way that it can keep the camera perfectly still, while the platform is moved all around. I had my direct-drive ServoBlock gimbal dialed in perfectly, so I know the WK-M/Naza gimbal outputs are fast enough and have enough resolution. I was also able to pretty much do the same thing with the mkTR mount that I modified to have 2:1 belt drives in each axis, although the roll axis was limited to +/- 30 degrees.

Gear drives, and those that use mechanical linkages inherently have lots of backlash that is hard to remove, without using two servos. I've found this not to be the case with belt drives, which is why we went this way.

-- Gary
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 06:46 PM
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GGoodrum's Avatar
South Orange County, CA
Joined Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by Helidaho View Post
Well now I want one even more
Patience is a virtue, Paul.

Actually, it shouldn't be too long. I should have the first one flying this weekend. There's a couple of tweaks in hole spacing, etc., that we need to work out and then Andrey can start cranking them out. He's currently working on the larger NEX-5/7 version, and the LG for the new hex.

-- Gary
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 08:57 PM
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AlanFlorida's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jul 2004
2,061 Posts
Very very nice engineering and craftsmanship!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
I'm in the process of building up a whole new F450/Naza, this one with DJI motors and ESCs. This one will be used with a new 2-axis GoPro gimbal/mount that attaches to the bottom plate via some special vibration isolators. The gimbal is basically "inline" with the arms/plates, and is just enough forward to keep the ends of the arms out of the frame. The pack(s) mount towards the back, in order to counterbalance the camera/gimbal. Andrey Kim (Askman...) is who designed this, with some collaboration on my part (mainly giving the requirements... ), and he's done some quite clever things. First of all, this is as rigid as a tank, which is a common trait of all his previous designs. Second, I told him it had to have a belt drive in each axis. Check. I also told him it had to be able to make use of the waterproof case, as I've scratched too many "naked" GoPro lenses, in even the mildest of mishaps. Check. Finally, I told him I didn't want to have to use any sort of landing gear, except for some simple pool noodle extensions for the existing F450 legs. Check. There's still at least + and - 45 degrees of roll allowed, and it doesn't hit the props or the ground.

I'll post more pics, etc., once I get this mounted to the new F450 frame. The plan is to eventually make these available via my TPpacks.com site, which I'm in the process of redoing. Not sure of the pricing yet, but it will be somewhere between the price of the "toy" gimbals, and the higher-end setups like an AV-130. (Don't worry QA, I'll reactivate my RCGroups site sponsorship before any of these are sold... )

The reason we are doing this is to come up with a higher level of gimbal performance, but in this very small package. The GoPro takes great video, especially the newer Hero2 version, but I want more than simply strapping it on the F450. We are also working on a slightly larger gimbal version that will be sized to fit an NEX-5N/7. This one will be primarily designed to fit the new DJI hex setup, and will have a simple, but clever landing gear option. More about this one later.

-- Gary
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 08:59 PM
aka Helidaho
AeroVideoUS's Avatar
United States, ID, Boise
Joined Jun 2010
2,650 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
Patience is a virtue, Paul.

Actually, it shouldn't be too long. I should have the first one flying this weekend. There's a couple of tweaks in hole spacing, etc., that we need to work out and then Andrey can start cranking them out. He's currently working on the larger NEX-5/7 version, and the LG for the new hex.

-- Gary
I tell my daughter the same thing... I guess I better lead by example but that gimbal looks really good, dunno if I can

Nice work,

Paul
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:11 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9nene View Post
hello a new vidéo FPV i like

http://youtu.be/F0U8uQkhVKQ
ok i admit it im a motorhead fan (somewhat) lol looked good yeas do some balancing or something.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sidneyw View Post
It will be worthy of the effort; after that you will have two PCs and tons of fun flying Naza. Most of our Ace Waypoint customers use Parallel 7 in their Mac books.
i used NAZA ASSIST in bootcamp with no issues as well.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:14 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
Actually, what I've found is that for direct drive-type mounts, even with 12-bit, ultra fast servos, when small movements are made, there is a detectable amount of stairstepness/lack of smoothness. I've tried Align DS610s, Savox 1290s, Hitec HS-7940TH and HS-7966HBs, and they all just don't quite have enough resolution, even at 4096 bits, to have really smooth movements. I've done a couple of belt drive gimbals now, but with relatively modest 2:1 reductions. This is enough to give buttery smooth movements, without sacrificing speed, like some of the "pro"-type mounts do. One other thing we are doing with this new mount is we've switched to some specially programmed Hyperion digitals that are 12-bit and still ultra fast. We program them to have custom throws, that match the belt drive, and the dead band settings are optimized for use with the Naza and WK-M outputs.

Many here have demonstrated getting very pro-level, smooth videos, but a lot of this, in my opinion, is because they are accomplished pilots who practice flying very smoothly. That's great, but my goal is to get great video, without having to worry too much about what the platform is doing. In order to do that, you need to have a very fast reacting gimbal that is tuned to the gimbal outputs. I've already been able to tune a gimbal in a way that it can keep the camera perfectly still, while the platform is moved all around. I had my direct-drive ServoBlock gimbal dialed in perfectly, so I know the WK-M/Naza gimbal outputs are fast enough and have enough resolution. I was also able to pretty much do the same thing with the mkTR mount that I modified to have 2:1 belt drives in each axis, although the roll axis was limited to +/- 30 degrees.

Gear drives, and those that use mechanical linkages inherently have lots of backlash that is hard to remove, without using two servos. I've found this not to be the case with belt drives, which is why we went this way.

-- Gary
you guys are doing well helping us follow in the AP stuff on naza i think chucks last video post blew me away. thought it was superb!
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:15 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
I'm in the process of building up a whole new F450/Naza, this one with DJI motors and ESCs. This one will be used with a new 2-axis GoPro gimbal/mount that attaches to the bottom plate via some special vibration isolators. The gimbal is basically "inline" with the arms/plates, and is just enough forward to keep the ends of the arms out of the frame. The pack(s) mount towards the back, in order to counterbalance the camera/gimbal. Andrey Kim (Askman...) is who designed this, with some collaboration on my part (mainly giving the requirements... ), and he's done some quite clever things. First of all, this is as rigid as a tank, which is a common trait of all his previous designs. Second, I told him it had to have a belt drive in each axis. Check. I also told him it had to be able to make use of the waterproof case, as I've scratched too many "naked" GoPro lenses, in even the mildest of mishaps. Check. Finally, I told him I didn't want to have to use any sort of landing gear, except for some simple pool noodle extensions for the existing F450 legs. Check. There's still at least + and - 45 degrees of roll allowed, and it doesn't hit the props or the ground.

I'll post more pics, etc., once I get this mounted to the new F450 frame. The plan is to eventually make these available via my TPpacks.com site, which I'm in the process of redoing. Not sure of the pricing yet, but it will be somewhere between the price of the "toy" gimbals, and the higher-end setups like an AV-130. (Don't worry QA, I'll reactivate my RCGroups site sponsorship before any of these are sold... )

The reason we are doing this is to come up with a higher level of gimbal performance, but in this very small package. The GoPro takes great video, especially the newer Hero2 version, but I want more than simply strapping it on the F450. We are also working on a slightly larger gimbal version that will be sized to fit an NEX-5N/7. This one will be primarily designed to fit the new DJI hex setup, and will have a simple, but clever landing gear option. More about this one later.

-- Gary

LOL

well maybe ill buy one from ya!
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:30 PM
DJI Support
Las Vegas/Lake Tahoe
Joined Feb 2010
9,119 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9nene View Post
hello a new vidéo FPV i like

http://youtu.be/F0U8uQkhVKQ
That is very nice FPV video. It looks like, from your video you were using a 5.8gHz patch antenna. Is that true? If not, what are you using?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:41 PM
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Hamanu's Avatar
United States, MI
Joined Nov 2003
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Anyone know where there are some Naza's in stock in the US
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hamanu View Post
Anyone know where there are some Naza's in stock in the US
whole kit or just board?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:54 PM
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United States, MI
Joined Nov 2003
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Just the board
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 10:02 PM
WHEN IN DOUBT FLOOR IT!!!
G-unit's Avatar
AZ
Joined May 2006
4,681 Posts
Just a heads-up, i tried the programmable HK-SS-25a esc and they work with the naza, maybe this is old news, but if not..
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Moscow, Russia
Joined Jun 2006
307 Posts
Quote:
Hyperion digitals that are 12-bit and still ultra fast.
Nice gimball! Waiting for the video
Gary could you please be more specific and open the secret (the name of those programmed magic servos)?????
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