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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:08 AM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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450mm vs. 500mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by v00d0o View Post
Just out of curiosity..would a 450mm frame be less stable than a 500mm?

I'm rebuilding my quad arms so I was wondering if I should change it to save weight.
My quad's main purpose is to film with a go pro. Thanks!
500mm =~ 20"
450mm =~ 18"
I don't think you'll see much difference.
I have an F450 and a Phantom (350)
Stability difference is not discernible.
My F550 (6 motors) = really stable.
As a result, the F550 has earned first string as camera ship.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:31 AM
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Bill Glover's Avatar
United Kingdom, Bracknell
Joined Nov 2000
11,477 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
I have an F450 and a Phantom (350)
Stability difference is not discernible.
My F550 (6 motors) = really stable.
As a result, the F550 has earned first string as camera ship.
Despite a *lot* of tweaking I've never managed to get my F550 to be quite as steady as the 450 quad I had the same gear in before. Particularly when the wind blows a bit. Quite possibly a 4S setup with smaller props would have been better on the F550.

Anyway I'm going to put everything into a Y6 frame which arrived today. The Y layout is meant to be more stable in wind than a flat hexa, and has decent redundancy if you lose a motor/prop/ESC. Against that they are slightly less efficient.

Oh and the size ... it's a "900" (in fact 880mm) I chickened out of getting the 1200 version

Fingers crossed ...
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:37 AM
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United States, CA, Huntington Beach
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d View Post
Guys,
I am really glad you liked the idea. I did the second take the last weekend trying to make a tighter circle. It is actually not a big problem, one just needs to play with roll, pitch and yaw constants. Tighter circle means increasing them all a bit.

Ok, what I made in my ER9X was that I added extra mix for roll, pitch and yaw. Each of the mix is activated by some (the same) switch, in my case I mapped Elevator D/R switch.

For e.g roll I added a mix, source is Full, weight is 40, switch is ELE and it does the Replace (you can Add, Multiply or Replace the value). Same for pitch and yaw

Roll 40% to the right
Pitch 50% forward
Yaw -15% to the left

So, when I flip the switch my stick values are replaced by constant values above. I can control throttle only. Maybe I will try "Add", insteaod of Replace, so I would be able to control the copter or make some manual adjustments.

My second test showed that when it's windy it's bad because it blows away the copter and it ends up in a spiral, not a circle. I'll post the video soon.

So this works the best when there is no wind.

Just for the reference, this is what we talk about
Being very new to the RC hobby I'm not sure if I'm ready to try this, but thanks for the details. I'm curious do you think if you had GPS with course lock turned on it would correct for the wind issues you spoke of.

I'm just learning about all this stuff so don't be too critical of my questions....
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:42 AM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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3S vs. 4S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
Despite a *lot* of tweaking I've never managed to get my F550 to be quite as steady as the 450 quad I had the same gear in before. Particularly when the wind blows a bit. Quite possibly a 4S setup with smaller props would have been better on the F550.

Anyway I'm going to put everything into a Y6 frame which arrived today. The Y layout is meant to be more stable in wind than a flat hexa, and has decent redundancy if you lose a motor/prop/ESC. Against that they are slightly less efficient.

Oh and the size ... it's a "900" (in fact 880mm) I chickened out of getting the 1200 version

Fingers crossed ...
Should have noted:
F450 & F550 have always been 4S
Phantom is staying stock = 3S
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:49 AM
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United States, CA, Huntington Beach
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old guy1 View Post
Don't know about Newton's 3rd law, just know throttle % needed to hover went from 55% to 52%. Took a little more weight off of her, hoping next hover will be at 50% where I want it to be. The lift is not higher (would be the same amount needed to move the weight - my misstatement), just throttle needed to produce it is lower, which is what I wanted
Gary
I'm curious, how are you determining what percentage of throttle is being used?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:17 AM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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50%?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoggdoc View Post
I'm curious, how are you determining what percentage of throttle is being used?
I would be too.
AFAIK the Naza places hover at 50% LH stick regardless of the variables...
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:25 AM
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Las Vegas/Lake Tahoe
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The only way to really determine how much throttle you are actually using is to fly in Manual mode. This is why you have to adjust your throttle curve in Manual so that you don't rise or fall when switching from ATTI to Manual and back.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:41 AM
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United States, MS, Ridgeland
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Good Point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe Ed View Post
The only way to really determine how much throttle you are actually using is to fly in Manual mode. This is why you have to adjust your throttle curve in Manual so that you don't rise or fall when switching from ATTI to Manual and back.
I overlooked the Manual option.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:53 AM
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I challenge myself occasionally with Manual. That is why I still fly my Single Rotor Helis. It is funny, we all consider Manual like an uncontrollable mode but 2 years ago we were thrilled to have the stability of gryos and accelerometers. How quickly this sport has changed.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:57 AM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Still Got Mine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe Ed View Post
I challenge myself occasionally with Manual. That is why I still fly my Single Rotor Helis. It is funny, we all consider Manual like an uncontrollable mode but 2 years ago we were thrilled to have the stability of gryos and accelerometers. How quickly this sport has changed.
I find a regular heli easier for me to fly than a multi in Manual.
My orientation with the multi gets scrambled rapidly.
On a heli, the tail is the tail.
I'm kicking the dust off my heli skills due to the fact that a friend is interested in helis and needs an instructor...
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:03 AM
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Fly the disc.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:25 AM
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USA, NH, Alstead
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
I find a regular heli easier for me to fly than a multi in Manual.
I had only begun to learn to fly a heli when I got my multicopter so its not like I could make a comparision. I tried a little manual with my multicopter before I put a lot of expensive FPV gear on it. I could "hover" it and move it around face out sort of OK but the problem is that as I got any distance away orientation really complicated the picture. In the Atti or GPS mode when I lost orientation I could relax and rotate it until I saw the lights or whatever or used the home lock. In manual if I lose orientation and I don't know what I am doing I am likely to have an expensive crash.

I have been flying mostly FPV except when I take off the goggles to land, and it is I can notice my LOS skills to be not as sharp when I pull off the goggles as it used to be when the entire flight was LOS.

I think I save "manual" for my heli practice next summer.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:15 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v00d0o View Post
Fixing is where you learn though.

If everything came too easy, it wouldn't be fun

You have a good attitude.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:23 AM
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2012
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I removed the "manual" mode since day #1 if I wanted to have a hard time I would have bought a KK board instead of a NAZA. For me easy is more fun!
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:45 PM
Westland Michigan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsworthy View Post
I removed the "manual" mode since day #1 if I wanted to have a hard time I would have bought a KK board instead of a NAZA. For me easy is more fun!
I second that GW
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