HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 17, 2013, 03:07 PM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
Depends on the company. Many would not sanction somebody flying a hobby grade copter in close proximity to equipment, crew, etc. on a vessel that's under way. Health & safety, risk assessments, processes, procedures, etc. etc. are top priorities nowadays.
Having flowing in working chemical plants, I agree to a point. These things are made to take the open seas and I cannot think of any way they could hurt the ship. It's all steel, the windows are made to take hurricane force winds... even if it happened to go into the exhaust it's so small in comparison it wouldn't even slow the exhaust gasses.

Chemical plants are "fun" in the way that if I flew in certain areas there is a chance of an explosion from a small spark. I work for a company that designs and builds chemical plants and have asked around... nothing is really in danger from a 7lb rock falling from a sky aside from HVAC and certain insulation on pipes.
MCrites is offline Find More Posts by MCrites
Last edited by MCrites; Jan 17, 2013 at 03:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 17, 2013, 03:14 PM
DJI and Empire Support
T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
5,000 Posts
Drift

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ooo0aks View Post
Now I have a few questions:

What is a good strategy to get rid of the drifting? I always have to trim it out, at least it doesn't drift for this flight. When do you consider it 'not drifting' anymore? How long are your copters staying in a let's say 3-ft. circle?
Please post your experiences.
Thanks!
I assume that you mean in Atti mode?
Let's also assume no wind.
And that the airframe is well balanced at its center (center of craft = center of gravity).
Your props (and possibly motors) are balanced.
Your props are all aligned in one, central rotor plane.
Your transmitter is calibrated to the Naza via Assistant.
All trims and sub-trims = zero

I'm really serious here about these stipulations. You need to have OCD...

When I have the above, my F450 will stay in place (3' circle) for at least 20 to 30 seconds.
Because my flying site is so windy, I can't go much longer than that without a puff of wind.
There's an early video that was on the DJI website, taken indoors, that shows even better stability.

I've said before that my flying buddies thought I had GPS long before it was introduced...

A neat, balanced, and cleanly built setup pays dividends like this.
It also makes it easy for your GPS to maintain stability (windy or not) because it doesn't have to work so hard...
T J Gilbert is offline Find More Posts by T J Gilbert
Site Sponsor
Last edited by T J Gilbert; Jan 17, 2013 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Comments
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 03:36 PM
Registered User
tkeeg's Avatar
Trenton, NJ
Joined May 2008
900 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hkubota View Post
Been there, done that. Short summary: the Naza sucks at FFF while in atti mode. It sucks too in manual mode thanks to the lack of tuning possible. I could not make it fly constantly forward at a stable angle. It keeps trying to level, move back, level etc.
And this is in manual mode. In atti mode the leveling and stopping is expected.

The Naza does excel when mostly hovering and slow flight.

Harald
Hello Harald,

My experience with the Naza differs from yours. I have four quads, two of which use the Naza electronics with GPS. Both of these quads fly exceptionally well in fast forward flight. They easily get up to 40mph in atti mode and solidly hold the forward angle well while in fast forward flight.
That being said, I still prefer the WM-M electronics which I have in another quad. It is my experience that the WK-M flies a bit smoother & overall better than the Naza, but it also costs 3 times as much! For me the bottom line is that for the price….its hard to find something to beat the Naza.

Regards,
Tom
tkeeg is offline Find More Posts by tkeeg
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 03:47 PM
Since 1902. Maybe.
Olivier_C's Avatar
France, RA, Grenoble
Joined Dec 2004
2,842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ooo0aks View Post
How long are your copters staying in a let's say 3-ft. circle?
Right after take-off : Less than 5 seconds
30 secs after : 10 secs
1 min after : forever, if its not too windy.

About fast forward flight, I also don't agree that the Naza is that bad, my F450 keeps a nice leveled flight when full sticks ahead, for a good 60-70km/h maybe. Of course when doing brutal stuff it tends to climb or dive, but that's not huge, it's about 1 meter lost or gained when going from zero to FFF, or in a hard bank at FFF, no biggie, easy to counter.
Olivier_C is online now Find More Posts by Olivier_C
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:01 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2012
287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier_C View Post
Right after take-off : Less than 5 seconds
30 secs after : 10 secs
1 min after : forever, if its not too windy.

About fast forward flight, I also don't agree that the Naza is that bad, my F450 keeps a nice leveled flight when full sticks ahead, for a good 60-70km/h maybe. Of course when doing brutal stuff it tends to climb or dive, but that's not huge, it's about 1 meter lost or gained when going from zero to FFF, or in a hard bank at FFF, no biggie, easy to counter.
I am not too familiar with other FC's but I know with my NAZA I can so some real fast runs and drop a few feet...not too bad in maneuvers. Makes for a wild ride when using a lot of rudder and ailero stick! Wo0T!
alwaysconfused is offline Find More Posts by alwaysconfused
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:04 PM
Multi rotors=No Paycheck left
SDSURFnGLIDE's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2011
3,441 Posts
So...trying to figure out why my Naza doesn't want to yaw right when flying into the wind. I know that inherintly wind is not multi rotor friendly...but my Naza is straight up fighting me..going down wind is no trouble...just into the wind if i want to only yaw right.
It will dip down on the right like it's gonna flip over and then as soon as i stop trying to yaw it comes back level...if it's a coordinated turn is somewhat ok...it's pissing me of cause I've needed with the yaw gains up and down the scope and no change...

Any ideas?
SDSURFnGLIDE is offline Find More Posts by SDSURFnGLIDE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:33 PM
DJI and Empire Support
T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
5,000 Posts
Yaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDSURFnGLIDE View Post
So...trying to figure out why my Naza doesn't want to yaw right when flying into the wind. I know that inherintly wind is not multi rotor friendly...but my Naza is straight up fighting me..going down wind is no trouble...just into the wind if i want to only yaw right.
It will dip down on the right like it's gonna flip over and then as soon as i stop trying to yaw it comes back level...if it's a coordinated turn is somewhat ok...it's pissing me of cause I've needed with the yaw gains up and down the scope and no change...

Any ideas?
So, what does it do flying upwind when you yaw left?
Also, is it a quad?
x or +?
I'm thinking it has to do with the motor controls required to move forward and rotate simultaneously. And that phenomenon's dependance on where the CW and CCW motors are located w.r.t. forward motion. FWIW to rotate right, the CCW motors have to speed up. (opposite reaction thing, http://code.google.com/p/arducopter/...rduCopter_Quad) Also, downwind travel is being accomplished without nearly as much of the forward motion contribution from the motors.
And that much visualization thinking has made my head hurt, so you guys take it from there...
T J Gilbert is offline Find More Posts by T J Gilbert
Site Sponsor
Last edited by T J Gilbert; Jan 17, 2013 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Details
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:22 PM
Since 1902. Maybe.
Olivier_C's Avatar
France, RA, Grenoble
Joined Dec 2004
2,842 Posts
Was thinking the same, but IMHO the linear velocity of the props is much much greater than the speed of the machine, so it may be neglectable... I didn't crunch the numbers tho, just wild guessing.
If could imagine this happening with a "+" setup, but a "X" is symetrical, about CW/CCW... maybe thats a single motor thats a bit weak or cannot get enough RPM, or its ESC badly set so it cannot speed up enough... or its reducing too much ?

Does this happen with full stick inputs, or is it also when doing "light" turns ?
Olivier_C is online now Find More Posts by Olivier_C
Last edited by Olivier_C; Jan 17, 2013 at 05:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:32 PM
Multi rotors=No Paycheck left
SDSURFnGLIDE's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2011
3,441 Posts
It's in X mode...on the hoverthings fpv quad...which from what I've been told has a yaw issue with Naza anyways....but it doesn't do this in light to no wind...only when it's a stiff breeze...

@tj....upwind left yaw works fine...it only does this on the right yaw.
@oliver...it could very well be a weak motor...I've already replaced one bad esc....i just don't want to replace a single motor if i don't have too....and it happens if i have forward movement and i only yaw...it works ok with a coordinated turn...still fights a little but not as bad
SDSURFnGLIDE is offline Find More Posts by SDSURFnGLIDE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:48 PM
Since 1902. Maybe.
Olivier_C's Avatar
France, RA, Grenoble
Joined Dec 2004
2,842 Posts
You could swap the left and right motors and then see if the yaw problem also change side, then it would definately be ESC/Motor, and not an aerodynamical (?) issue ?
Olivier_C is online now Find More Posts by Olivier_C
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:15 PM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDSURFnGLIDE View Post
It's in X mode...on the hoverthings fpv quad...which from what I've been told has a yaw issue with Naza anyways....but it doesn't do this in light to no wind...only when it's a stiff breeze...

@tj....upwind left yaw works fine...it only does this on the right yaw.
@oliver...it could very well be a weak motor...I've already replaced one bad esc....i just don't want to replace a single motor if i don't have too....and it happens if i have forward movement and i only yaw...it works ok with a coordinated turn...still fights a little but not as bad
Have you put electrical tape on both sides of the Naza? You could be seeing a wind issue that could just be coincidental when in reality it has everything to do with light.
MCrites is offline Find More Posts by MCrites
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:29 PM
Multi rotors=No Paycheck left
SDSURFnGLIDE's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2011
3,441 Posts
You know what...no i haven't...i totally forgot about that...great idea...I'll try that...makes sense as to why it flies great at dusk and night!
SDSURFnGLIDE is offline Find More Posts by SDSURFnGLIDE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:30 PM
Multi rotors=No Paycheck left
SDSURFnGLIDE's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2011
3,441 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier_C View Post
You could swap the left and right motors and then see if the yaw problem also change side, then it would definately be ESC/Motor, and not an aerodynamical (?) issue ?
I could try that...but i soldered my motors directly to the escs....so it would be a pita...
SDSURFnGLIDE is offline Find More Posts by SDSURFnGLIDE
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:43 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Thousand Oaks
Joined Oct 2009
53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDSURFnGLIDE View Post
So...trying to figure out why my Naza doesn't want to yaw right when flying into the wind. I know that inherintly wind is not multi rotor friendly...but my Naza is straight up fighting me..going down wind is no trouble...just into the wind if i want to only yaw right.
It will dip down on the right like it's gonna flip over and then as soon as i stop trying to yaw it comes back level...if it's a coordinated turn is somewhat ok...it's pissing me of cause I've needed with the yaw gains up and down the scope and no change...

Any ideas?
It might be simple physics: flying forward, the quad is tilted.
Going into the wind, the wind creates a downforce, while flying down the wind it will create an upforce. To maintain height and speed, the motors need to create much more lift into the wind. Now when you want to turn (yaw), you're asking two motors for less lift and the other two to come up with more in order to keep the height and turning at the same time. Now, if the motors are already close to their limit, one pair might not be able to come up with the difference to keep the height, but the other pair produces less lift in order to turn, and as a result it will loose height. It should not matter which direction you make it yaw, otherwise my theory is no good.
Damn, is that hard to explain without hands....
1ooo0aks is offline Find More Posts by 1ooo0aks
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:45 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2012
287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier_C View Post
You could swap the left and right motors and then see if the yaw problem also change side, then it would definately be ESC/Motor, and not an aerodynamical (?) issue ?
Was going to suggest the same thing. Swap left and right motors and esc's and see if the problem migrates. If not then there is another issue altogether. (issue you mentioned sounds familiar with that unit)
alwaysconfused is offline Find More Posts by alwaysconfused
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product DJI WooKong-M Autopilot System for multirotors **Owners Thread** DJI INNOVATIONS Multirotor Electronics 20045 Nov 25, 2014 05:06 PM
New Product MultiWiiCopter "MiniWii" FC - Cheap, small 6DOF FC JussiH Multirotor Talk 707 Jan 01, 2013 09:54 AM
Discussion DJI Innovation helicopter autopilot XP.3.1 for European customers JoelT Aerial Photography 2 Sep 24, 2009 12:43 PM
New Product United Hobbies FC 28-05 & FC 28-22 brushless outrunners $5.95 ea. JawaSnack Hot Online Deals 9 Jul 17, 2007 11:31 AM
Futaba FC-18 teacher to FC-16 pupil problem . jmquetin Radios 5 Nov 02, 2004 07:48 AM