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Old Nov 14, 2011, 10:47 PM
Not as Good as The Kid
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Here's a teaser for you.... Frank got 1860 Watts with the Xoar 16x8 PJN on the Motrolfly today at WOT and 82.86 Amps.

On Sunday, we watched Tom fly a friend's 60 inch Extra 300 EXP with the Torque setup and the Xoar 15x8 and it was ballistic. I was able to witness that the recommended setup was a great match and can't imagine the need for more power. I have to admit that I didn't think I would be saying this, but there it is.

Lee's test shows 11.27 pounds of thrust at WOT with the Torque/Xoar 15x8 combo and we're showing 11.35 on the same setup and about 70 Watts more (1607). The 1860 Watts from the Motrolfly with the 16x8 is producing 12.99 pounds... but the bottom line is that the Xoar is still producing more Watts, Amps, and Thrust at nearly all throttle settings (yes, nearly all), at all sizes, and on all motors.

Again, our tests are more ad-hoc in less sterile settings, but seem to concur with the original findings anyway. To also witness what 11-plus pounds of thrust looks like in a vertical pull out of a hover on these airframes is worth the trip.

I'm working up some bar graphs to illustrate the results, and Frank did take some additional throttle point settings... 1/2, 2/3, 5/6, and full. More to come.

Jim
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 05:42 AM
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www.thrustmotors.com
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Reflex Films View Post
And..... ?

I was hoping the people would drop by and make suggestions, but we'd also like to hear a little more about how they would enhance the EXP product line. I'm familiar with the PA product line, like them a lot, and know a little about the Thrust Motors and Quantum ESC product lines too. 1500 Watts and 70 Amps is approaching par with the power systems we are talking about here so far, and the Vox prop is something we also have data for. If there is something else you can contribute, we'd be happy to hear about it and perhaps help to assess it as an option. Don’t be shy …..

Just to add something here...... if anyone knows which Thrust motor would fit under the cowl of the 48 or 60 inch EXP's and provide the ability to balance the plane properly with the right battery, and perhaps tell us a little about the prop options, Watts, volts, Amps, RPMs, etc, this would help too.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave102269 View Post
Looking for help on an Airboss 80a esc.

I know the current model will run 6s. The one I have says "2s-5s Lipo" on the case. Does anyone know if I can manually set this older Airboss to 6s?

Thanks,
Dave

As a follow-up if anybody else has this problem:

Per Curtis at EF, the Airboss that I described is 6s capable, but its internal bec is not. As long as you use an external bec, no problem with 6s. ESC should still auto-recognize the 6s setup. Thanks Curtis!

Dave
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 02:18 PM
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United States, SC, Pawleys Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave102269 View Post
As a follow-up if anybody else has this problem:

Per Curtis at EF, the Airboss that I described is 6s capable, but its internal bec is not. As long as you use an external bec, no problem with 6s. ESC should still auto-recognize the 6s setup. Thanks Curtis!

Dave
Just to clarify, the newest Airboss 80 amp IS 6s capable and so is the bec. The older version is the one that has the limitation.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 02:26 PM
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Chicago, IL
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Originally Posted by Aeroplayin View Post
And..... ?

I was hoping the people would drop by and make suggestions, but we'd also like to hear a little more about how they would enhance the EXP product line. I'm familiar with the PA product line, like them a lot, and know a little about the Thrust Motors and Quantum ESC product lines too. 1500 Watts and 70 Amps is approaching par with the power systems we are talking about here so far, and the Vox prop is something we also have data for. If there is something else you can contribute, we'd be happy to hear about it and perhaps help to assess it as an option. Don’t be shy …..

Just to add something here...... if anyone knows which Thrust motor would fit under the cowl of the 48 or 60 inch EXP's and provide the ability to balance the plane properly with the right battery, and perhaps tell us a little about the prop options, Watts, volts, Amps, RPMs, etc, this would help too.
I dont know much about Thrust motors, but I have had great luck with Infinite motors from Okhobby.com

The Infinite A4020-540, same size as the Torque, is a great motor to run on the 60" Edge/Extra using 5s lipo, plenty of power with Xoar 15x8 or 16x8. It costs half the price of the Torque or Motrolfly, about $50 shipped or so.

Vien
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vienquach View Post
I dont know much about Thrust motors, but I have had great luck with Infinite motors from Okhobby.com

The Infinite A4020-540, same size as the Torque, is a great motor to run on the 60" Edge/Extra using 5s lipo, plenty of power with Xoar 15x8 or 16x8. It costs half the price of the Torque or Motrolfly, about $50 shipped or so.

Vien
What ESC are you using on these?
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplayin View Post
What ESC are you using on these?
ICE 75. I've had great luck with Castle. , no joking.

Infinite makes great motors. Built quality is much better than Turnigy. Unfortunately, they dont have good kv to run on 6s. I tried the 540kv on 6s with 15x8 once, crazy power but might get too hot in the summer.

Vien
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 06:25 PM
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Germany, NRW, Heinsberg
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Originally Posted by vienquach View Post
ICE 75. I've had great luck with Castle. , no joking.
Me too.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 07:06 PM
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AP,

Are you using the 60" with the motrofly and then comparing the different props? The reason I ask is that your data gathering and subjective data gathering may be finding something that is similiar to ammo reloading. I have a 45 that prefers a certain load compared to my other 45's. I haven't shot for a long time since I got into flying again but I did have a couple of guns that would behave a bit differently with different loads. It wasn't much but I could tell.

I see that you are working on the vertical punch out from the hover and I think that is going to be really instrumental in what you are trying to prove in the prop selection. If I could suggest something though, you could use the current setup as your control and see if you could duplicate the results on a different airframe with a different motor.


Maybe even a smaller exp, like a 48" , and then extrapolate down the prop selection of the xoar vs the ACP. I believe most everyone runs the 12x6 APCe but the results you have may show that a 12x6 Xoar may be a bit too much in the amps for an airboss 45a/torque combo.


This is the kind of stuff that makes my little nerd brain go.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stgdz View Post
AP,

I see that you are working on the vertical punch out from the hover and I think that is going to be really instrumental in what you are trying to prove in the prop selection. If I could suggest something though, you could use the current setup as your control and see if you could duplicate the results on a different airframe with a different motor.


Maybe even a smaller exp, like a 48" , and then extrapolate down the prop selection of the xoar vs the ACP.
Yep... but we have the Torque 820Kv on the 48 inch Extra that has the 12x6 APC on 4S in it now, and we'd like to compare it to the Xoar 12x6 setup on that plane. I have the 14x7 Xoar and 14x7 APC already tested on the 630Kv Motrolfly and we're going to run the same test on the 2820 at 683Kv... both on different 48 inch Edges.

We already tested the Xoar 16x8 and APC 16x8 on the 480Kv Motrolfly in the 60 inch Edge, but I still want to run the 15x8 APC and Xoar on the Torque 500Kv on the 60 inch Extra. In all APC/Xoar comparisons, I'm hoping to get video of the hover-to-punch-out under the same weather conditions, on the same fully charged battery.

All props, motors, and planes, are ready to go, so it's just a matter of time to put it all together at the field, between my work schedule and Tom's school schedule.

We already have APC/Xoar comparison test data for the 14x7, 15x8 and 16x8 sizes in the spreadsheet, so I just need to compile, convert to PDF, and post it to the Web site, and link it up here for everyone’s review. I should be able to do that by the end of the week, and the 12x6 test on the 820Kv on 4S, the 14x7 test on the 680Kv motor on 4S, and all the videos will be the only missing items from what we intended to do in the first place.
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 10:15 AM
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United States, IL, Glen Carbon
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ETA on the subjective (pilot's opinion and choice) and final prop report?

JC
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplayin View Post

We already have APC/Xoar comparison test data for the 14x7, 15x8 and 16x8 sizes in the spreadsheet, so I just need to compile, convert to PDF, and post it to the Web site, and link it up here for everyone’s review. I should be able to do that by the end of the week, and the 12x6 test on the 820Kv on 4S, the 14x7 test on the 680Kv motor on 4S, and all the videos will be the only missing items from what we intended to do in the first place.
I finish my 14x7 / 15x8 / 16x8 APC vs Xoar bench test comparison yesterday. I am just plugging in the final numbers into the spreadsheet and will send you (Aeroplayin) the results to further enhance and validate the overall bench test findings. It looks pretty dam consistent to me with Xoar pulling more amps and delivering more thrust. However APC appears to be consistently more efficient. I myself have flown APC religiously for over 5 years but it is test such as these that lead to paradigm shifting results. I have learned a ton from these tests and can't wait to see the flight test results. I believe the Xoar will be the overall top 3D prop. I for one am done playin in the lab and now weather premitting I want to start flyin the absolute bloody hell out of my Extra, with an Xoar on the nose of course. Lee
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by leespaddock View Post
I finish my 14x7 / 15x8 / 16x8 APC vs Xoar bench test comparison yesterday. I am just plugging in the final numbers into the spreadsheet and will send you (Aeroplayin) the results to further enhance and validate the overall bench test findings. It looks pretty dam consistent to me with Xoar pulling more amps and delivering more thrust. However APC appears to be consistently more efficient. I myself have flown APC religiously for over 5 years but it is test such as these that lead to paradigm shifting results. I have learned a ton from these tests and can't wait to see the flight test results. I believe the Xoar will be the overall top 3D prop. I for one am done playin in the lab and now weather premitting I want to start flyin the absolute blood hell out of my Extra, with an Xoar on the nose of course. Lee
I'll also be meeting with Frank this weekend to finalize our data and let Tom fly the props on a few motors to see how they pull from various positions, and function in certain maneuvers. We'll get his subjective feeling about them too.
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 02:22 PM
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United States, IL, Glen Carbon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplayin View Post
I'll also be meeting with Frank this weekend to finalize our data and let Tom fly the props on a few motors to see how they pull from various positions, and function in certain maneuvers. We'll get his subjective feeling about them too.
Now we are getting really anxious and excited.

Again, thank you to every person who contributed to the prop test. You guys should be put into the RC hall of fame!

JC
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