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View Poll Results: How much foam do you consume?
1 bundle or less per year 83 33.88%
1-2 bundles per year 98 40.00%
2-6 bundles per year 42 17.14%
1-2 bundles per month 7 2.86%
2-4 bundles per month 4 1.63%
4 or more bundles per month 11 4.49%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Apr 21, 2012, 10:08 AM
Foam Av8r
RogueTitan's Avatar
In Teh Garage (Rossville, GA. USA)
Joined Sep 2008
3,351 Posts
maybe he meant 1:4A scale
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 03:32 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,543 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWCLOUD View Post
...it does not account for those of us that leave the skin on...

The other part that lead me to decide to purchase was that it was the same exact thing as BLU-COR.

...this defeats the intent of a quick and dirty build.
I used to leave the "vapor barier" skin on PBIII and Pink also, but I found that gluing or taping to the film gave me very inconsistent results. You'll find that the bulk of builders who take a little time with their models remove the skin to get a reliable surface that can be glued, taped, sanded, painted, etc.

Note that MPF material is not the same as Depron, BluCor, PBIII, Pink, or anything else. There are subtle differences in all of these materials, even though they are all technically expanded polystyrene plastics. Everything affects the end product -- the processes involved, the chemical dopants, the ratio of polymers, yada yada yada. I'm not a materials engineer and I don't play one on the Internet. However, from the user/builder perspective I can tell you one thing: this is by far my favorite foam for building aircraft. Adams has come up with the perfect compromise of accuracy, stiffness, flexibility, temperature tolerance, grain, surface, and a raft of other factors.

If you are looking for quick and dirty then you need to stick to FFF. MPF is about three or four times more expensive. It's not for wasting on planes that you don't expect to survive a single combat session or a training session with a newbie. You have Pink and PBIII for that. (I still use Pink and PBIII on stuff for which I don't need precision.) If you want to make a decent plane that looks good, can be sanded and painted accurately, and will tolerate some abuse then MPF material is your best bet.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 08:56 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,747 Posts
Quote:
If you are looking for quick and dirty then you need to stick to FFF. MPF is about three or four times more expensive. It's not for wasting on planes that you don't expect to survive a single combat session or a training session with a newbie. You have Pink and PBIII for that. (I still use Pink and PBIII on stuff for which I don't need precision.) If you want to make a decent plane that looks good, can be sanded and painted accurately, and will tolerate some abuse then MPF material is your best bet.
Thank you UG! I could not have said it better, really!

Ken
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 09:47 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,761 Posts
If you cant afford this MPF material then you must be on Food Stamps and or welfare.

MPF makes all the the others a WHY BOTHER decision.

Bob
Northwest Cutout Service
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 11:16 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,543 Posts
Bob, I'm with you. On anything I am building for others I won't consider using FFF in place of MPF; it's just not worth the grief. But for combat planes that I'm gonna trash in a session or two anyway I don't mind.

And as far as the slight surface superiority of Depron over Adams: I don't need that level of surface precision. The people I build for appreciate a good, consistent surface for painting and inking, but they prefer something that will last over something that only looks good until the first brush with a tree or less-than-perfect landing. This is why I was entertaining the use of EPP for a while, but it's not a good material for paint or ink. Adams is.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 03:00 AM
Mark Harrison
USA, CA, Piedmont
Joined Jun 2010
2,269 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon View Post
1/4 scale huh? So a 747 has a wingspan of between 198 and 224 Feet.. that means your wing will be around 50 feet.

Should be a nice

I don't think that much MPF has even been made yet.
Well to be honest they'll have some time to get their production up... I'm still scouting out some workshop space; I hear NASA has some empty hangars they're looking to rent out!
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:02 AM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,838 Posts
when you start i want a link
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 06:31 PM
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RWCLOUD's Avatar
Fresno CA
Joined Jul 2006
1,745 Posts
Test 2

I got to thinking last night, what would happen if MPF were " tempered " ? Could it even be done and how long would it take? So I cut another strip, got out my heat gun and went at it! Very impressive! It takes on the appearance of Depron, in fact when I put the 4 pieces in the make shift clamp I had to look twice to see which piece was which. It comes out a little rough compared to Depron, but a few quick strokes with 400 sandpaper leaves it very smooth.

The "tempered" piece is not as stiff as Depron, but feels stiffer then PB3. However with this test it looks to be about the same. For me at least , MPF will, with a quick heat treatment serve my purposes well I think! Yes it will probably be a little brittle, but thats OK by me. And I love the way it cuts with a knife!

On a side note: It is very offensive to imply that I am on food stamps or welfare. That remark has nothing to do with whether ot not MPF is suitable for my needs.

Blu-Cor holds its plastic skins pretty well, PB3 does not.

FFF of any type is not available locally. And the last box of Depron cost me $225. All that I'm looking for is a more economical way to do my experiments.

From 1957 to 1978 I flew , FF rubber, FF gliders and control line, from 1978 to present, I fly all three plus RC. 95% of what I build are true scratch builds. The remaining are either plans built or the occasional kit, with only 2 ARF's in the last 30 years.

No I'm not an engineer, But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it is a duck.

Blue Skies........................Tim
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 06:50 PM
ich bauen groß modell flugzeug
Keenan smith's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2010
6,838 Posts
i think i'll StickWith Depron
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 06:51 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,747 Posts
Tim,

Thank you for doing this test. I know that baking wing panels from FFF makes them stiffer, and I have never noticed it getting brittle. I have baked MPF wings and noticed the same thing. I appreciate your willingness to test the product.

I can really appreciate your thoughtful, and courteous rebuke. Well said! (two thumbs up)

Ken
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:14 PM
Registered User
RWCLOUD's Avatar
Fresno CA
Joined Jul 2006
1,745 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb View Post
Tim,

Thank you for doing this test. I know that baking wing panels from FFF makes them stiffer, and I have never noticed it getting brittle. I have baked MPF wings and noticed the same thing. I appreciate your willingness to test the product.

I can really appreciate your thoughtful, and courteous rebuke. Well said! (two thumbs up)

Ken
You're welcome! And thank you!

Blue Skies.......................Tim
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 09:20 PM
Foam Av8r
RogueTitan's Avatar
In Teh Garage (Rossville, GA. USA)
Joined Sep 2008
3,351 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith459 View Post
i think i'll StickWith Depron
well being in the UK they wouldn't ship it to you anyway
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 12:01 AM
Registered User
RWCLOUD's Avatar
Fresno CA
Joined Jul 2006
1,745 Posts
Quick and dirty!

This is what quick and dirty means to me. Throw something together and observe how it flies, help to find CG and look for nasty habits before committing a few hundred dollars in Balsa and carbon and or fiberglass. When your building from scratch and have no plans to follow these chuckies and larger powered profiles help tremendously!

The first one has an 18inch wingspan. It was made in a few minutes, cutting parts with a small utility knife, because I was to lazy to get an exacto knife in the next room, as fast as I could and using Hot melt glue to hold it together.1/4 inch balsa spars in wings and bottom of fuselage. Yes they stick up a little, but I don't care.Laminating 3 layers sure made the forward fuselage strong ! The purpose of this chuckie was to see if those small elevons at the wing tips would act like elevators on a flying wing. Apparently they do! This little plane has a 1942ish flavor and thats what I'm after. Looks like if this was made a little larger it might make a nice sport plane.

The second one , 24inch wingspan, which has the rudders at the tips was made for the same reason as above. But it was glued together with Gorilla Glue . The wings were sanded with a generic flat bottom airfoil. No reflex in the center of the wing. After sanding, which got pretty thin near the tips they were Tempered with heat gun. Only took a few minutes and they seem pretty strong! A very nice thing about MPF is how nice and flat it stays during the tempering, un like Blu-Cor where you have to fight to keep it straight. The rudders were sanded to a thin generic airfoil that is very thin and tempered. The pod is 3 layers, sanded and tempered. Yes this took extra time, but I would have done so with Blu-Cor also. It's not finished, but I took her out anyway with the rudders held kinda in place with a piece of masking tape. It flies very nice! In a few days I hope to make a larger powered version of this model and see how it goes!

I'm liking this foam a lot more now!

Blue Skies..........................Tim
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 10:38 AM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
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Dont miss out on the flying wing forum at

http://www.rcgroups.com/nurfl-gel-762/

Bob
Northwest Cutout Service
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 11:51 AM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,543 Posts
Tim, you need to look into using a KF step on your wings to possibly avoid the use of spars as stiffeners. Lots of folks on this board have taken up the habit of laminating layers together as a means of stiffening wings and adding a simple, cheap, quick airfoil. This thread will get you started. The easiest thing is to follow the images until you see something you like, then pick up the text of the thread through the backlink.

-- Marty, Promoter of All Things KF --
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