Originally Posted by RogueTitan

ya but the foam board is not used for insulation it is used for art/Craft and plane building thus should be flat and smooth.

All the foam board I have seen is pretty flat and smooth. It's the building materials that have noticeable wave in them.

the last few pieces of redi board i bought had so many waves in it i got sea sick looking at it

Regular guys seem to have lost the central idea of this thread.

As I understood it,
the Theme was to find a USA MADE replacement for imported Depron.

For me, Fan fold, although probably cheaper than other alternatives, has always been
of lesser quality than depron.

Great stuff of experiments and low budgets but not a viable Balsa replacement.
Remember that expensive lightweight wood stuff ?

Skin was a downer, all the holes were objectionable, wavyness was just unacceptable
then add spotty availability and it's too frustratingly intolerable !
Sure some can get all they want while others cant get any.

What Ken and Don have been working towards is an opportunity to get an
American Mfgr involved and possibly open a new market for them,
namely US !

So, I guess I dont understand all the discussion about FFF, as it has
been discussed ad infinitum in several other threads for years.

Sorry, Not intending to rant, Just an attempt to stay on track.

Best,

Bob

Bob,
You are right on with your message about the objective of this thread. We are working to convince an American manufacturer to offer a foam sheet product to the modeling community. Part of that is to understand what the good and bad characteristics of current materials are. Thus, some discussion of FFF and ready board can be helpful. But, I think you are right that most of that is well known and does not need additional discussion.

BTW, discussions with the manufacturer are continueing to make progress. We are working on defining the specification of a sample run which will hopefully allow us to make samples of the material available to users. Stay tuned!

Originally Posted by birdofplay

Regular guys seem to have lost the central idea of this thread.

As I understood it,
the Theme was to find a USA MADE replacement for imported Depron.

For me, Fan fold, although probably cheaper than other alternatives, has always been
of lesser quality than depron.

Great stuff of experiments and low budgets but not a viable Balsa replacement.
Remember that expensive lightweight wood stuff ?

Skin was a downer, all the holes were objectionable, wavyness was just unacceptable
then add spotty availability and it's too frustratingly intolerable !
Sure some can get all they want while others cant get any.

What Ken and Don have been working towards is an opportunity to get an
American Mfgr involved and possibly open a new market for them,
namely US !

So, I guess I dont understand all the discussion about FFF, as it has
been discussed ad infinitum in several other threads for years.

Sorry, Not intending to rant, Just an attempt to stay on track.

Best,

Bob

This is fine but at some time or the other it goes before the bean counters who dont know how much foam we use or dont use and they make the call . If you think not well ask jewel stores how they pick a new store site or any other store also, by countimg roof tops in the area. joe

well yaah !!!
thats why there is a Vote Meter on the front end of this thread.

Plus the possibility of capturing some portion of non Aircraft markets has been presented.

No personal dising was intended.

It's all good.

As long as we keep our eyes on the prize.

I have no doubt that Adams is capable of producing a suitable alternative to Depron...a product that is perfectly flat, uncoated, unperfed, white, and available to be purchased in full cases that are boxed in a suitable(sturdy) corrugated cardboard cartons...with carton dimensions falling just below the FexEx and UPS punitive dimensional weight shipping surcharges.

The fact that we are talking about "sample runs" of foam...is a GOOD SIGN!!!!!!!!!!

But, whenever you're dealing with a new product, it's never too early to think about how you are going to get that product to the ultimate end user. The product must be available in the desired amounts...and delivered in the most economical way.

I suggest cases sizes of 16 sheets of 6mm x 24in x 48in foam material.

The FexEX Ground and UPS shipping costs for such a container/case size would be as follows:
Estimated Total Shipping Weight...9lbs(6 lbs. foam +3 lb. carton) ...(same shipping costs for both FedEx and UPS).
Zone 2 = $6.65
Zone 3 = $7.01
Zone 4 = $7.73
Zone 5 = $8.17
Zone 6 = $8.63
Zone 7 = $9.51
Zone 8 = $10.58

I've looked at the online sources of corrugated boxes for other projects. A 4"x24"x48" corrugated carton is not a stock item. This is something that Adams would have to custom order. No big deal. If a product is finalized, for the volumes Adams would be dealing in, they would be paying probably $2.00 to $2.50 per box.

But if sample batches are to be shipped...what are the options?

The closest stock box size that is available is a 48x24x12 box. The best price I've found for this size is from CSPackaging.net. For instance, they offer 100 boxes for $3.31 per box. A box this size would hold 48 sheets which is approximately 18lbs of foam plus the box weight of 4 lbs....22 lbs total. But from a dimensional weight standpoint you pay a dimensional shipping weight of 83 lbs to ship.
Zone 2 = $25.66
Zone 3 = $28.70
Zone 4 = $31.43
Zone 5 = $35.79
Zone 6 = $42.85
Zone 7 = $49.05
Zone 8 = $51.68
The outer zones really get socked!!!

I still think from the modeler/crafter prospective...the 16 sheet case is the sweet spot!!!
Foam cost $40.00 to $46.00
Carton cost $3.00
Shipping cost $7.00 to $11.00
Delivered to your front door cost $50.00 to $60 per case.

Tons of RC guys (and gals) would drop $50 to $60 for a such a high quality, available, and conveniently delivered product like this!!!!!!!

RJKIRK,

I am currently getting quotes for custom box sizes to hold 15 or 16 sheets.

Ken

Ken,

When we get to the point of actually getting the sample batch, I would be interested in getting quite a bit, and getting it out to the guys here in the west. Would be a good opportunity to let as large a group as we can to try the material and see if they like it. I travel to events in Arizona, Nevada, California, Utah, & New Mexico. I would like very much to have a home grown product to offer the builders!

I recently introduced a few of the local builders to Depron. Local Lowes does have BlueCore and we also have Dollar Store foam. The Depron has been a hit but there are quite a few still put off by the cost.

RJ,
Thanks again for your valuable information on packaging and shipping. I think your suggested sweet spot of 16 sheets has merit. It seems to minimize shipping cost for individual customers who want just one box. And it also works well for "kit suppliers" who may want several hundred sheets per order.



I tried to learn more about the standard box you found at $3.31 from cspackaging.net. Frankly, I could not figure out what the cspackaging.net website is all about. It seems to be some kind of yellow book service for shipping materials suppliers. Can you help me with a direct link or some info. on how to find a box suppliers site? My first question is on the sizing of boxes. Are dimensions inside or out? Will a 24 x48" sheet fit in a 24x48 box?

EDIT, If you know of a good supplier of both standard and custom boxes please let Ken know.

I think you guys are really missing the 2nd main point of this thread aswell . After this foam happens ( yep an optimist ) How do we get it delivered to our brothers in Canada and Australia Cheaply . Well lets concentrate on Canada . I live on the Route to Alaska So maybe we can pack it in all the Elderly travelers motorhomes when they head north ?? www.headingtoalaskapackingfoam.com ???

Originally Posted by Wilfor

I think you guys are really missing the 2nd main point of this thread aswell . After this foam happens ( yep an optimist ) How do we get it delivered to our brothers in Canada and Australia Cheaply . Well lets concentrate on Canada . I live on the Route to Alaska So maybe we can pack it in all the Elderly travelers motorhomes when they head north ?? www.headingtoalaskapackingfoam.com ???

Wilfor,

I have sent many combat models to Canada. Yes the cost is higher, but there are some reasonable shipping services to you, most notably has been USPS Priority International. Its not out of reach, though it is more than local. I suppose that would be the case in any country.

Who knows, if all goes well this may end up being the product to export to Europe and encroach on the Depron market further. Time will tell.

Ken

I think that FFF is very relavent to this topic since Adams is the one who manufacturers it for both Dow and Owens Corning.
if they can run off thousands of bundles of wavy colored FFF for the building industry I don.t see why they cant make flat wave less unperforated bundles for RC Hobbyists.
not adding color, waves or perforations is a few less steps in the manufacturing process which should make it easier to make than what the building industry requires.

Just Saying

Originally Posted by bz1mcr

Bob,
You are right on with your message about the objective of this thread. We are working to convince an American manufacturer to offer a foam sheet product to the modeling community. Part of that is to understand what the good and bad characteristics of current materials are. Thus, some discussion of FFF and ready board can be helpful. But, I think you are right that most of that is well known and does not need additional discussion.

BTW, discussions with the manufacturer are continueing to make progress. We are working on defining the specification of a sample run which will hopefully allow us to make samples of the material available to users. Stay tuned!

need to make it available for those of us who pay through pay pal
I am ready to get some of this foam as soon as it is available!

fyi re the shipping data :

I got depron in Full sheets in boxes 5.5" x 28.5" x 41" 20 sheets per box

And TWO of those boxes cost $41 to get from Colo Springs to The NW.
Essentially $1 per sheet for shipping !

L8r

Bob