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View Poll Results: How much foam do you consume?
1 bundle or less per year 83 33.88%
1-2 bundles per year 98 40.00%
2-6 bundles per year 42 17.14%
1-2 bundles per month 7 2.86%
2-4 bundles per month 4 1.63%
4 or more bundles per month 11 4.49%
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 04:09 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,680 Posts
;>}

That looks great !

I will expect Vids and Specs ...

Cuz I have had nothing but tough luck attempting to DO EDFs on this type of foamy.

Bob
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 04:27 PM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,565 Posts
The Elmer's/MPF laminating experiment has failed. I just tested the bond and the sheets can be pulled apart without all that much effort. Yes, the glue is completely dry.

Will somebody please tell me why standard Elmer's worked so remarkably well on Depron, and not worth a damn on MPF? How much different can the materials be?

I went back and checked the Depron blocks I made, and I can't get the two layers to even begin to separate. They're permanently fused together, period.

The MPF sheets, on the other hand, will be easy to completely pull apart. Again, what in the world is going on here? Why the drastically different results?
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 04:33 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,543 Posts
Mike, why are you so desperately attempting to shove a square peg into a round hole? If the Elmer's that you have used bonds well with Depron but not with Adams then use it on Depron, but not on Adams. Simple. There are many, many, many adhesives that have been mentioned in this thread that do bond well with Adams, so how about trying some of those? The difference in cost can't really be all that much unless this is a production ARF line you are trying to support. Even I'm not doing that.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 05:16 PM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Useless Geek View Post
...There are many, many, many adhesives that have been mentioned in this thread that do bond well with Adams, so how about trying some of those?...
Oh, I will now. I'll test several. I really want to stay away from the toxic stuff, though. If I recommend laminated MPF in the build thread I'm working on, I don't want to tell people to use a toxic, flammable glue.

That's why I had my hopes up for a cheap, easy, hazard-free solution. I'll try again with other glues.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 05:20 PM
RC Adddict
Wilfor's Avatar
Canada, BC, Williams Lake
Joined Jan 2010
4,271 Posts
i havent tried it on larger areas but on a 30" wing Elmers rubber cement works well
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 06:34 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,540 Posts
Gorilla Glue, Gorilla Glue, Gorilla Glue!

Woo! Woo! Woo!

Ken
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:37 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
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Ken, I'll bet you Do weigh it down to keep the foaming from lumping out.

:-) Bob
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 08:10 PM
Build straight - Fly twisty
Whiskers's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Little Mountain
Joined Feb 2010
4,306 Posts
The trick is to apply a light covering of GG and then try to scrape it all off.
When you have scraped off every atom of GG that it is humanly possible to do, it'll be about right.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 08:17 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,540 Posts
Whiskers,
That pretty close to what I do. You need to be sure it has a wet look, but no more. Then as Bob said. I don't just weigh it down though. I clamp it to the point of slightly compressing the foam. Consequently I use poplar or maple stock to clamp between. This insures there are no air gaps and the job is flat. When you use GG this way, you get alot of milage from that 2 oz bottle.

Another form of clamping is painters or masking tape. I would not build foamies without it. Consumable item though.

Ken

Here is a KF step lamination in process


And a fuselage lamination set up.


Link to this process here
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 08:31 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,540 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskers View Post
The trick is to apply a light covering of GG and then try to scrape it all off.
When you have scraped off every atom of GG that it is humanly possible to do, it'll be about right.
Another advantage of scraping the glue is that it forces it into the pores of the foam, thereby getting even deeper adhesion.

Ken
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 10:07 PM
12th Pursuit Squadron
TheAeronut's Avatar
Garland, Tx.
Joined Mar 2002
1,111 Posts
Weight is great, but vacuum bag is the ultimate. I have bagged balsa sheeting on many foam cores, both white EPS 1Lb and blue extruded from 15psi to 60psi using elmers and Gorilla Glue. Polyurethane glue works great in bags just as long as you make sure that there is enough moisture to catalyze the glue. Vacuum bagging is pretty easy once you have the equipment and can apply low to high pressure ofer the entire surface to insure an excellent bond.

Just sharing an alternative that has yet to be mentioned...

J.P.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 10:32 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,543 Posts
It's awfully hard to beat that toxic, flammable spray adhesive 3M 45, 77, or 90 for laminating foam. Very easy to apply (as long as you are in a calm air, temperature-controlled environment with good ventilation), adheres really well, and is very predictable. Don't forget to use an atomizer and spritz on a dampening of some very flammable denatured alcohol before joining the pieces together.

[sigh]

Sometimes the best results come from the less-than-best solution. I guess ya just gotta weigh the overall advantages and disadvantages before making your choice.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 11:21 PM
Registered User
Columbus Ohio.
Joined Aug 2006
151 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depronicus View Post
All I did was dribble the cheapest, most basic Elmer's available onto the sheets, spread it out with two fingers, dribble on more Elmer's where it seemed it needed it, stick the two sheets together, rub it down with the palm of my hand, and walk away from it. I didn't clamp it or put weights on it.
The lack of clamps or weights to compress the glued laminates is the biggest contributing factor to your glue failure. Sounds like an air pocket allowed the glue to dry against both surfaces. Also, the Elmer's White Glue is not nearly as good as the Elmer's Carpenters Glues.

But don't give up.
Try it again with these.

Elmer's Carpenter's Glue (Original), Elmer's Carpenter's Glue Max, Gorilla White, Gorilla Original.
Remember...don't use too much glue...and spread evenly...
I predict they will all work fine as long as you have sufficient totally flat compression of the laminates by using boards loaded down with weights or clamps.

The Groilla glues will give give you quicker results, as well as be usable in lots of other glue joints besides laminates.

Both Elmer's Carpenter glues will be limited to gluing up laminations.
They will need 48 hours of compression.;
They will take longer to cure...one to two weeks.
They will be more economical (gallon jugs).
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 12:07 AM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Useless Geek View Post
...[sigh]...
Exactly.
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Old Sep 04, 2012, 12:08 AM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJKIRK View Post
...Try it again with these...
I will. Thanks.
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