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Old Nov 14, 2011, 01:22 PM
Flying Hazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Too many gyros The TV doesn't need the independend gyro control. It would just match the pitch feed to the tailerons.
Also the Ailerons are fixed together to no flapperon option.
I just didn't understand why you said it would "counteract" the pitch feed (maybe I'm getting the message wrong) since the TV and the tailerons act simultaneously.
The idea of setting the gyro on TV is to get better stabilization at near 0 speed when the tailerons loose control.

I'd love to use flapperons but I have not enough channels...
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
I just didn't understand why you said it would "counteract" the pitch feed (maybe I'm getting the message wrong) since the TV and the tailerons act simultaneously.
The idea of setting the gyro on TV is to get better stabilization at near 0 speed when the tailerons loose control.

I'd love to use flapperons but I have not enough channels...
Slave both TV and Tailerons off the pitch and roll gyros then both will input which ever is getting a response. This means your TV is always on but because thrust also varies you could throttle down in a flat spin and have no gyro correction response so I'd either opt for both or flight surfaces first.

The only time you're concerned for tailerons becoming null is in a hover. But in a flat maneuver, as normally seen with the FS, they throttle right back so any gyro corrections from the TV with little thrust would almost be null unless you mixed in thrust control as they do with the FCS. FS the FCS is feeding gyro inputs to the surfaces. As the aircraft throttles up off a runway etc you see the tailerons correct the orientation. This can all change since the FCS is far more dynamic and has sensor inputs to get the best results from the FCS. But generally in these extreme manuevers the pilot is directing the TV while the FCS is feathering the tailerons and the LE flaps all reading the surface air flow.
The same kind of can apply here is my guess that gyro correction can be for both or primary to the surfaces.
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Last edited by Maxthrottle; Nov 14, 2011 at 01:56 PM.
Old Nov 14, 2011, 01:56 PM
Flying Hazard
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Ok. But I want... no, wait, I NEED to try doing high alpha with TV pitching up (Setting them on a fixed position and either leaving them linked to the elevator control or off) and compensating with tailerons down manually or with a separate Gyro as real ones do. If I Slave them both off the pitch/roll gyros I can't try this...

It's a matter of pure passion!
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
Ok. But I want... no, wait, I NEED to try doing high alpha with TV pitching up (Setting them on a fixed position and either leaving them linked to the elevator control or off) and compensating with tailerons down manually or with a separate Gyro as real ones do. If I Slave them both off the pitch/roll gyros I can't try this...

It's a matter of pure passion!
well thats where we go back to the example where I add the TV pitch control on a slider for this very purpose. I can set the attitude of approach or thrust line off the slider but the gyro still can correct both the surface and nozzle regardless of forward throttle position or air speed.
Actually regardless of how you set the approach having both being corrected by the gyro is for drift outside of your input. The gyro won't counter you, it will keep what you intend.

To this is different from the Euro which is a delta. The down thrust up elevons worked better on my Euro than it did on my SU-34 for alphas. On the 34 I pitched the thrust up but never fully explored the pitch down of the nozzles while the tailerons are pitching up like demonstrated in many stalled manuevers.
The stalled manuevers are a different config than a Alpha is my obesrvation. Again the pilots inputs seem to go direct to the TV while the surfaces are correcting orientation based on air flow. Thus you see the tailerons flicking, LE flaps deploying etc by the FCS while in a fall or tumble but the pilots input to direction like changing direction of spin mid flight is the pilots input.
For this model the gyro can handle the correction of both or the surface while you directly control the nozzles orientation.
That's how I did my 34 anyways. The flapperons are not on gyros where as the rudder, steering and TV Yaw was always on one gyro.

On the 34 in the end I settled for my canards not to be on a gyro but rather were on a servo slower from Elev pitch input to drive both the LE flaps and the canards in a down pitch only.
may do the same on this one also less the canard.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 05:00 AM
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hey Max, did you get the info you needed on the new CS 10 bladers? looks like a very promising setup. I'm gonna run the E-Flite motors on mine.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
hey Max, did you get the info you needed on the new CS 10 bladers? looks like a very promising setup. I'm gonna run the E-Flite motors on mine.
Still reading through the thread. Everyone seems to have their own variation on setup with that fan.

I'm waiting to see if ExtremeRC Mark actually gets a good 4mm solution. I toasted 3 5mm motors recently so thats $350 down the drain in a blink.
If he comes up with a ARC 28-58-1 solution I'd like to see those numbers. Too even two Typhoons would put out 4kg at 65amps according to him, though he's not entirely clear which of the Typhoons he got those numbers with, 2W18 and 2W25 are mentioned. Still nice sound, good thrust, low amps.... just not super fast which I'm not looking for anyways.

Which of the Eflite motors were you looking to marry yours too and what were the numbers for it?
If this model could take the Eflite 80mm with a Mega motor......that might also be an interesting possibility from Efflux.

I like the fact that there isn't anything to add on to this version so the weight will only go up with a larger battery. Otherwise at 2.7Kg-3Kg AUW, keeps the wing load low enough and with EDFs putting out 4Kg+, this is going to be a fun model
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 11:12 AM
Flying Hazard
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Otherwise at 2.7Kg-3Kg AUW, keeps the wing load low enough and with EDFs putting out 4Kg+, this is going to be a fun model
What EDF setup gets 4kg thrust?

And, does anyone know the weight of the stock fan+motor?

Cheers,
Jandro.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
What EDF setup gets 4kg thrust?

And, does anyone know the weight of the stock fan+motor?

Cheers,
Jandro.
The 70mm CS fan LuvE is talking about is getting about 2kg as does the Wemos and others. This is a twin so that makes 4kg.

If anyone knows details yet they likely are not supposed to release the information but my guess is they being counter rotating, they are likely the same as the ones used for the Seabart Mig ..... who would make another counter rotating around the same time?
My concern to that would be the available thrust since the Mig is super light.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Max, I'm gonna try the V32 motors, since they have more mass than a normal 70mm motor. if they'll work, they should put more RPM through the rotor. the Amps will be a bit higher, but will be worth it for the smile factor. I'm also hoping for a 4mm option.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 05:20 AM
Houston. .we have a problem.
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Just woke up. Is it January yet?

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Old Nov 16, 2011, 08:44 AM
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Ok guys

A few small updates before tomorrow!!!!

The SU-35 is a step up from all previous Freewing Jets, including the F-18 Super Hornet!

The build is a lot more "massive" in a way that the servos are not anymore glued on but rather screwed on.
There is a lot more wood included in this SU-35 for reinforcement and also for stability.

I can't say much more till tomorrow, because tomorrow I am going to give you guys, world's FIRST!!! In Person Pictures of the SU-35

Ask me right NOW to what you wanna see!

I am gonna take pictures of the battery compartment, retracts close up, elevators, actual build quality and much more!

The Foam Quality is now to a higher standard then before as well, and the SU-35 is quite a nicely sized bird.

A few more facts right here:

Thrust Vectoring has apparently no more play and is a nice and snug fit.

Elevators are also full moving stabs, but a lot more improved with wood,carbon and improved plastic.

More wood Parts on the Jet then on any other Freewing Product before.

Control Horns and clevises are also apparently improved, and are stronger then the older ones.

This is going to be Freewings absolute new Flagship!

Get Ready for Tomorrow!

Stay Tuned for more upcoming infos, directly to a screen/monitor near you

Best Regards
NS.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 09:06 AM
You win again gravity!
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Don't forget motors and esc pictures if you can!
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMorrisRC View Post
Don't forget motors and esc pictures if you can!
Will do of course.

Getting pictures of the actual edf installation plus the placements of the esc's.

Got ya.

Anything else folks?

NS.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 10:13 AM
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Finland
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Ducting is my main interest, it will either kill this one or make it a champ! Take many many pics!

NS, my friend got p-51 from r2F and had to pay vat+customs. Seems that german warehouse is not running yet. Or then R2F should sell without vat.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 10:45 AM
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United States, MI, Royal Oak
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Im requesting to see some cockpit photos as well as someone holding it for a size comparisons. Cant wait for the pics! Thanks NS.
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