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Old Nov 01, 2011, 03:49 PM
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second glider advice

Hello folks!
this is one of my first post here..and I would like some recommendations from you pros..
after 20 years out of the hobby recently I adquire a sophisticated lady kit, from the 80's, since I'm working with computers I really needed some manual stuff to do, I enjoyed a lot gluing and sanding..and had a great time!
well, I'm starting to think about building another one, with a bit more of controls, like spoilers and (maybe) ailerons, since I want to do some work i really not want to buy a ARF or 100%plastic/fiber/whatever stuff, but will consider a mix, like fiber fusellage and balsa/ply wings and tail elements. span could be between 200 oe 2300 cms maximun (space here at home is an issue) and shouldn't be not for a pro to fly iy and build it.
I'll very very happy to hear your recommendations and of course if somebody want to sell something I will here offers! but of course I'm starting to think about this and don't have a lot of ideas...I recently saw a sagitta 900?
many thanks in advance, sorry If I wrote somethink wrong (I'm spanish)...
regards!
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 04:43 PM
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I think, ths will be good for you http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539755
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 04:52 PM
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Thanks sluggis1! but this one is a 2 ch, small span, and is absolutly forbidden for me to use electric engine!, I like slope fly! thanks again!
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 05:28 PM
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What about a great planes elite kit?
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 05:32 PM
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Why not have a go at designing and building a more sporty wing for the sophisticated lady, something you can push a bit harder with on the slope?

You already have a body to strap it to.

A similiar planform to what you have now but with airfoil sections and contruction techniques lifted from the Mark Drela Bubble Dancer. Just a little dihedral and no polyhedral with ailerons would be the go.

The existing sophisticated lady fin and stab might not be able to keep up with the full potential of the new wing, so you could build a more sporty fuse at a later date and hey presto, you have your light floater and a sportier version for the heavier days.

Sure it'll never be a slope racer but it's about learning and having fun (and building), and you can save the slope racer for your third ship
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 05:41 PM
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Hello Bjr_93tz, that's a good one, I'll keep it on mind. and yes what you say about fin and stab I found them a bit delicate...and because I'm using it to teach myself after so many years I don't know if is going to last too much..
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 05:54 PM
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Hi Sergio,

Learning the structural limits is part of the fun too. A floater will tend to flutter it's wings long before the fin and stab will fly off. A well constructed floater will flutter it's wings and hold together long enough to give you a chance to slow it back down.

One "mistake" I've seen kill a few floaters is that they tend to be set up nose heavy (nose heavy has it's time and place) so to travel slow the thing needs a bit of up elevator. The problem being when it comes time to speed things up to lose height you have to hold in a lot of down elevator, too much down and you'll overspeed, the wings start to flutter and in the panic the down elevator is let go and the thing sharply pulls up and blows the wings apart.

Again all part of the learning curve
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiom4 View Post
.... span could be between 200 oe 2300 cms maximun (space here at home is an issue) ....
2300cm? Wow what a big home

If you wish to slope, the Sagitta 600 (2m) or 900 (2,5m) are nice and I like the look. They are designed as thermal gliders, but will slope very well.
I also like slope designs from Chris Foss (http://www.chrisfoss.co.uk/). He makes kits, and also sells plans.
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Hello Pazi
I think the Sagitta 600 is more like what I wanted, thanks a lot!, I'll try to find one...very interesting the UK link, I like the phase 6, seems a a very fast sloper!
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 06:29 PM
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guys, I'm going to sleep (6 or 7 hours more here) if you have more comments I'll answer tomorrow! thanks!
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Old Nov 02, 2011, 05:52 AM
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Sometimes are Sagitta 600 kits on Ebay. But very highly priced, its more a collector item. But you can buy plan from http://www.rcmplans.com/ and scratch build it.

Phase 6 - there are two wing options. Semi symetrical is for normal winds, full symetrical wings need really blast to fly well.
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Old Nov 02, 2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiom4 View Post
Hello folks!
this is one of my first post here..and I would like some recommendations from you pros..
after 20 years out of the hobby recently I adquire a sophisticated lady kit, from the 80's, since I'm working with computers I really needed some manual stuff to do, I enjoyed a lot gluing and sanding..and had a great time!
well, I'm starting to think about building another one, with a bit more of controls, like spoilers and (maybe) ailerons, since I want to do some work i really not want to buy a ARF or 100%plastic/fiber/whatever stuff, but will consider a mix, like fiber fusellage and balsa/ply wings and tail elements. span could be between 200 oe 2300 cms maximun (space here at home is an issue) and shouldn't be not for a pro to fly iy and build it.
I'll very very happy to hear your recommendations and of course if somebody want to sell something I will here offers! but of course I'm starting to think about this and don't have a lot of ideas...I recently saw a sagitta 900?
many thanks in advance, sorry If I wrote somethink wrong (I'm spanish)...
regards!
sergiom4,

Welcome back to the joy of soaring.

I need some clarification. Slope or thermal?

I am assuming thermal - what launch method? I am assuming hi-start.

Wing span - you say you have limited space. Do you mean storage space? A 3 piece 3M wing stores smaller than a 2M one piece wing and is close to the storage size of a 2M two piece wing.

Tell us about your wind conditions. Since the Lady flies well for you I presume you have light to moderate winds and that you are thermal hunting.


Some ideas:

Chrysalis 2M
Well known and well loved kit.
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_product/chrysalis2m.html-


Oly 2 and 3
Ever popular glidersand the kits have great reputations
http://www.skybench.com/index.html?h....com/home.html


Scepter 2.5M - 100 Inch
Have seen this fly - very nice
http://www.mountainmodels.com/produc...roducts_id=178 -


Marauder -3M 3 piece wing
There are BIG build threads on this one
http://www.mmglidertech.com/marauder.php


These are all RES gliders.


Any kit can be modified to include ailerons but remember to take some of the dihedral out of the wing if you do that. And of course any kit can have flaps added. While one could argue that certain airfoils are not designed with flaps in mind, unless you are contest flying, it should not be a big issue.

I always suggest that you make provisions in your builds for ballast so you can fly on those windy days too.
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Old Nov 02, 2011, 08:34 AM
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Hello!
Pazi, thanks for this great link!, very good info if I decide going with the sagitta, also useful for other aircafts!
aeajr, thanks!, yes I'm very glad, the other day I was flying on the hill with Barcelona at my feets, watching ths S. lady going smooth and I really felt ZEN....
the truth is that i really like slopes...I'm flying the lady with 8 or 10 knots, with success. about the space at home, yes I mean storage space, is absolutely true that 3 between 2 is less than 2, but I'm not sure I'm prepare for such a big bird, although there is now a kit on ebay for the sagitta 900 that's 2.5 meters as Pazi said, this is a two elements wing? 1.25 + 1.25? I definitely study those links that you kindly send me. thanks again everybody for your great help!
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Old Nov 02, 2011, 05:33 PM
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Knowing that you are slope soaring rather than flat land thermal soaring makes a big difference in what I might recommend. In slope soaring higher weights can be advantageous if you have a hill that provides good lift.

Naturally any thermal glider can be flown on the slope so no need to look away from those. However I am more inclined to recommend you move to ailerons for slope soaring. The faster response can be useful and will open you up to slope aerobatics.

On the slope a lot of people fly foam. It is less subject to damage from rocky or rough landing sites. And, if your plane gets caught in the rotor or dropped in front of the hill, you are not likely to suffer a lot less damage. I have bounced my Zagi wing 6 feet off the ground, then relaunched it.

My Zagi, Easy Glider and Radian are my slope gliders of choice. All foam and all fly great!


Take a look at California Sailplanes
In particular I would suggest you take a look at the Eraser, though he as a number of nice scale plane kits.
http://www.californiasailplanes.com/...lplanesepp.htm

Easy Glider Pro is a gentle flying aileron glider that can be flown slope or thermal
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXVEN8&P=ML

Cularis - close to a foam ARF but flaps and ailerons - all foam
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXSBS8&P=7

Sky King RC Products has a nice selection of slope gliders
http://www.skykingrcproducts.com/rcp...rc_planes.html

Art Hobby makes foam core wood skinned beauties that are semi-ARF
http://www.arthobby.com/#


Spirit Elite - used to be availalbe as a kit. This is a link to the ARF.
works well on slope or as thermal glider.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAVR0&P=7

Magnum - wood skinned foam core models as well as foam models.
http://shop.magnumrcmodels.com/Slope-Glider-Kits_c2.htm

Leading Edge Gliders - very popular
http://www.leadingedgegliders.com/eppGliders/index.php

Zagi- can't for get the Zagi
http://www.zagi.com/zagi-gliders/zag...-launch-glider
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Old Nov 02, 2011, 06:16 PM
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Wow! that's a lot of material for study!, thanks a lot aeajr for this generous information!
what you say about foam verus balsa is true!, in fact, my sophisticated lady has received some bad treatment since I'm still working on my flying skills, and also because the place where I fly this doesn't have a proper landing area http://www.clubvelerscollserola.org/...ivos/onsom.htm
but I think I'm a romantic and doesn't find my self with this material...I think I'm between the GP Elite, also the Chysalis, or maybe Marauder, and the Sagitta 600,
and then have a little acrobatic fro windy days. I haven't try acrobatics but definitely I'll try one. just to let you know, because I'been reading on this forum, nobody mentioned my first glider when I was 18...and seems there is no trace of it, was a Rofly from Robbe, I really had a great time with that one!
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