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Old Jan 15, 2012, 08:00 PM
Inanity-Free Zone
RCMC's Avatar
Delaware
Joined Jan 2006
547 Posts
3D Hobby Shop 74" Edge Restore (Horizontal Stab)

Team,

During the investigation for damage I found that the horizontal stabilizer had sheeting breaks due to wrinkles visible in the silver covering. This damage wasn't really too bad but it did need to be fixed. In this case the broken sheeting was on the top and bottom of the stab in the same location. There is no good way of getting to the sheeting without taking off all the covering. The nice part of the silver Edge is that the stab is silver on the top and white on the bottom with no graphics.

Repairs like this will not have any affect on the plane's performance.

RCMC
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Last edited by RCMC; Jan 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 08:03 PM
3D Sunset Flier
Buzzed's Avatar
PHX
Joined Jun 2008
4,133 Posts
Yankphan,

Nice job on the flight and getting her back on the ground safe n' sound.

It takes a few flights to get it set up right and I think moving the batteries back should do the trick.

Also, be sure to run those servos on 6V. That should make them nice n' strong. Although I am curious of their centering as well, you will prob fix the issue with battery placement.

Congrats,

-Buzzed

P.S. My white Xoar should be here soon. You talked me into it!
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 08:04 PM
3D Sunset Flier
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PHX
Joined Jun 2008
4,133 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMC View Post
Team,

During the investigation for damage I found that the horizontal stabilizer had sheeting breaks due wrinkles visible in the silver covering. This damage wasn't really too bad but it did need to be fixed. In this case the broken sheeting was on the top and bottom of the stab. There is no good way of getting to the sheeting without taking off all the covering. The nice part of the silver Edge is that the stab is silver on the top and white on the bottom and no graphics.

Repairs like this will not have any affect on the plane's performance.

RCMC
Outstanding!

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Old Jan 15, 2012, 08:07 PM
3D Sunset Flier
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PHX
Joined Jun 2008
4,133 Posts
Yankphan,

Didn't see it at first, but you are running 6V to the RX.

Nice job! Hehe

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Old Jan 15, 2012, 09:13 PM
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United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Jan 2011
480 Posts
They center just fine.... actually I have this brand servo in ALL my planes.....
I recommend them for sure.
This is the motor I have...
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m607-big...325-295kv.html

I forgot to mention that im running a turnigy esc.... I think hobbyking judt put them out and let me tell you it is an awesome esc.... Its the DLUX 120a esc. I also bought a 55a dlux fir my PA Bandit. Anyhow, i flew the edge for 4:30 and brought her down.... The esc and lipo werent even warm! I checked my voltage left in the packs and they were averaged at 3.89v per cell... I did fly it a little hard because i couldnt resist.... My next flight will be STRICTLY balancing!! Im using 4000mah lipos, looks like i should be able to get a little more time....your going to love the prop...it finishes it off for sure!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzed View Post
Yankphan,

Nice job on the flight and getting her back on the ground safe n' sound.

It takes a few flights to get it set up right and I think moving the batteries back should do the trick.

Also, be sure to run those servos on 6V. That should make them nice n' strong. Although I am curious of their centering as well, you will prob fix the issue with battery placement.

Congrats,

-Buzzed

P.S. My white Xoar should be here soon. You talked me into it!
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Last edited by yankphan; Jan 15, 2012 at 09:59 PM.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 09:48 PM
3DHS 'native'
going4speed's Avatar
USA, TX, Spring
Joined Jan 2008
5,929 Posts
The hardest part for me on building and repair is sanding. Sanding is a art all on its own. I get better every build or repair but it would be awesome to have a book/tutorial on the art of sanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMC View Post
Team,

During the investigation for damage I found that the horizontal stabilizer had sheeting breaks due wrinkles visible in the silver covering. This damage wasn't really too bad but it did need to be fixed. In this case the broken sheeting was on the top and bottom of the stab. There is no good way of getting to the sheeting without taking off all the covering. The nice part of the silver Edge is that the stab is silver on the top and white on the bottom and no graphics.

Repairs like this will not have any affect on the plane's performance.

RCMC
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 10:17 PM
doh!
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United States, AR, Little Rock
Joined May 2006
4,378 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankphan View Post
They center just fine.... actually I have this brand servo in ALL my planes.....
I recommend them for sure.
I'm happy that you have had good experiences with Bluebird servos... many of us have not. I ran some in a 42" Slick for a while as an alternative to HS-65's at 1/3 the price. They were heavier, and considerably sloppier. Centering appeared fine on the ground, but the plane was never locked in feeling in the air. Eventually I burned up one of the aileron ones after about 30-40 flights. Replaced both ailerons with HS-65's. MUCH better feel on the plane. Immediately it felt more in control. It was clear that the ailerons weren't nearly as well centered in the air as I had thought they were on the ground, or the servos weren't as smooth, or whatever. The plane was much better on the HS-65's. Enough so that I pulled the two bluebirds out of the tail and replaced them with two more hs-65's.
Sold two of the bluebirds, put two of the others in a cheap foamy. Burned another one out 10 flights later. Of the two I sold I think only one still lives on. I had some in an older plane too a long while back and was not very impressed. These were just standard size servos this time, I'd have rather had a Futaba 3004 or Hitec 425, close to the same price, but much better performance, and those are just cheapo 15 dollar standard type servos!
I won't use the Bluebirds again.

I wouldn't be surprised if you eventually replace the servos and find your trim issues gone.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 10:23 PM
Inanity-Free Zone
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Delaware
Joined Jan 2006
547 Posts
Going4speed,

What part of sanding is a problem for you?

Many times people try to sand to hard. The trick on balsa is to see how easily you can sand and not apply pressure. It's easy to crack the balsa or break glue joints by bending them. I never use a more course grit than 100. I do prefer garnet paper if I can get it. I do my fine sanding with 150 or 220. 150 is enough if you are using covering.

RCMC

Quote:
Originally Posted by going4speed View Post
The hardest part for me on building and repair is sanding. Sanding is a art all on its own. I get better every build or repair but it would be awesome to have a book/tutorial on the art of sanding.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 10:49 PM
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United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Jan 2011
480 Posts
Sorry for your bad experiences with bluebird.... I dont know, im happy with all my other planes (all bluebird, MG servos) and none have failed or feel sloppy flying. I dont doubt hitecs are much better but i am happy with them.... I definitley think i need to find the "sweet" spot for my lipos as i only have 4 flights on the plane. I dont think the problem are my servos but you may be right, i will continue to balance... This is my first giant scale....i was expecting it to "feel" like my PA Extra MX only bigger... Just something getting used to i guess !


Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan_m View Post
I'm happy that you have had good experiences with Bluebird servos... many of us have not. I ran some in a 42" Slick for a while as an alternative to HS-65's at 1/3 the price. They were heavier, and considerably sloppier. Centering appeared fine on the ground, but the plane was never locked in feeling in the air. Eventually I burned up one of the aileron ones after about 30-40 flights. Replaced both ailerons with HS-65's. MUCH better feel on the plane. Immediately it felt more in control. It was clear that the ailerons weren't nearly as well centered in the air as I had thought they were on the ground, or the servos weren't as smooth, or whatever. The plane was much better on the HS-65's. Enough so that I pulled the two bluebirds out of the tail and replaced them with two more hs-65's.
Sold two of the bluebirds, put two of the others in a cheap foamy. Burned another one out 10 flights later. Of the two I sold I think only one still lives on. I had some in an older plane too a long while back and was not very impressed. These were just standard size servos this time, I'd have rather had a Futaba 3004 or Hitec 425, close to the same price, but much better performance, and those are just cheapo 15 dollar standard type servos!
I won't use the Bluebirds again.

I wouldn't be surprised if you eventually replace the servos and find your trim issues gone.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 12:59 AM
iumop ap!sdn w,I
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Joined May 2005
6,469 Posts
I thought all my servos were great until I flew faster/stronger/better centering ones. It's all relative to what you are used to. It's hard to go back after you get a taste of the good stuff.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 08:56 PM
Team 3DHS / Team JR
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United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Apr 2010
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I have owned bluebird 630mg servos.....I took them out of my 65 vyper because it did not feel "precise".....with some hitecs it all felt NICE. The blue-birds weren't bad...they just weren't really GOOD either. I'd suggest investing in ONE high-quality servo like a hitec7955 for the elevator...then report back and let us know if you can tell a difference. I think you may be surprised how much better a servo can be than these bluebird 630mg's that center "fine".

I no longer try to save money on servos....now that I've gotten used to the good ones, the cheap stuff never feels right anymore....the same can be said for ESC's.....only high-quality there also.....

I used to not notice the difference....now I do.....particularly on a 3dhs airframe.....ALL of which will fly precise very well with the right setup.

The problem is NOT in the twisted elevator joiner....and I personally don't think it's in your CG either....I fly all of my planes somewhat noseheavy.....

The way I personally check CG is NOT the inverted test....try this.....

EDIT - Per Twisted's comments a few posts below......TRIM THE PLANE FOR UPRIGHT STRAIGHT AND LEVEL FLIGHT AT YOUR CURRENT CG....then run through this checklist below....if you change anything that affects CG...re-trim the plane for level upright flight before running through the list below each time you make an adjustment.......Thank you Twisted.

We all know both SCOTT and AJ attempt to design planes for ZERO pitch coupling in KE flight at almost all rudder deflections......and they do an EXCELLENT job of getting the airframe design right before it goes into production....

IF you set your CG at the right point where they intended....you won't have any significant pitch coupling...maybe just a LITTLE and if things are done well...it may be nonsymmetric as this small amount of pitch coupling will be due to things other than elevator trim......but let's start simple.....

Guess a CG by using RECOMMENDED components such as motor/esc/servos/batts that all have weights as intended......Roll the plane into KE flight at a speed that lets you fly KE at about 1/3 rudder deflection without climbing or dropping......if it tucks to the gear...the plane is tailheavy = move the pack forward......if it pulls toward canopy, you are noseheavy (NOT common). Move the pack and repeat until you reduce the KE pitch coupling as much as possible...THEN you will also notice that you'll have almost eliminated any roll coupling.....Guess why....YEP, that's right, because the plane was designed to minimize the effort required to fly KE....if your CG is set up correctly.

Normally....on all of the 3dhs planes I've owned (almost 15 planes now...) if you set the CG up this way....your coupling will be minimal and the plane will respond as slightly to mildly noseheavy on the traditional "inverted" CG check......but it will fly VERY good at precision flight.

As for being difficult to hover...on my planes it almost always comes down to choosing proper expo settings on the tail surfaces......If you play with it some, you hopefully will discover that tailheavy planes are Not easier to hover.....Ben Fisher showed me that at a huckfest one time when I was trying to fix a poor hovering and harriering plane by moving the pack to the rear.....it worked better all around noseheavy......and it WILL be more precise.

At least that is what works for me. I hope it helps. If you have a lack of precision...it's not the airframe....it's setup or components....and what you describe doesn't sound too noseheavy at all.
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Last edited by Bivens; Jan 17, 2012 at 07:30 PM.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 10:49 PM
3DHS 'native'
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USA, TX, Spring
Joined Jan 2008
5,929 Posts
Level sanding is my biggest challenge. I tend to sand lob sided if that makes any sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMC View Post
Going4speed,

What part of sanding is a problem for you?

Many times people try to sand to hard. The trick on balsa is to see how easily you can sand and not apply pressure. It's easy to crack the balsa or break glue joints by bending them. I never use a more course grit than 100. I do prefer garnet paper if I can get it. I do my fine sanding with 150 or 220. 150 is enough if you are using covering.

RCMC
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 11:02 PM
iumop ap!sdn w,I
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Joined May 2005
6,469 Posts
Great post Bivens. That's what I do and it has worked very well.
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 10:23 AM
Happiness is a belt fed weapon
Cleared2Engage's Avatar
Ventura, CA
Joined Oct 2009
1,359 Posts
Just ordered this thing in red. fortunately I live close enough to ADC that I can pick it up and save on shipping. Now I'm not gonna get any sleep till they get it in stock the end of the week.....
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 10:29 AM
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San Antonio, TX
Joined Sep 2008
3,329 Posts
You have to remember that you need to trim for level upright flight first as the elevator trim is what causes the pitch in KE. (to the canopy/uptrim or belly/downtrim) Then you can go about the process as Bivens expalins. Every time you change a factor that would change the CG check your trim in upright flight first.

Excellent post, I do exactly the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bivens
The way I personally check CG is NOT the inverted test....try this.....

We all know both SCOTT and AJ attempt to design planes for ZERO pitch coupling in KE flight at almost all rudder deflections......and they do an EXCELLENT job of getting the airframe design right before it goes into production....

IF you set your CG at the right point where they intended....you won't have any significant pitch coupling...maybe just a LITTLE and if things are done well...it may be nonsymmetric as this small amount of pitch coupling will be due to things other than elevator trim......but let's start simple.....

Guess a CG by using RECOMMENDED components such as motor/esc/servos/batts that all have weights as intended......Roll the plane into KE flight at a speed that lets you fly KE at about 1/3 rudder deflection without climbing or dropping......if it tucks to the gear...the plane is tailheavy = move the pack forward......if it pulls toward canopy, you are noseheavy (NOT common). Move the pack and repeat until you reduce the KE pitch coupling as much as possible...THEN you will also notice that you'll have almost eliminated any roll coupling.....Guess why....YEP, that's right, because the plane was designed to minimize the effort required to fly KE....if your CG is set up correctly.
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