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Old Nov 07, 2011, 01:43 PM
Team WC2013 F3K
oakman7004's Avatar
Sweden
Joined Dec 2004
984 Posts
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Originally Posted by HHARRIS View Post
One more question. For now

I understand the aileron servo arm dimension is 4.5mm from the center screw to the center of the push rod hole. Now is the aileron horn push rod hole 6.5mm from the top skin of the aileron or the hinge on bottom ?

Thanks!

HUGH
Hinge on bottom!
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Oystmyr View Post
Yes that was the prototype you saw but the conditions didn't really ask for a sub 250g plane.
All our wings are built with Rohacell 31, which means a density of 31kg/m3.

The biggest issue is not to build light planes, it's to get the customers to understand that it hasn't full strength for windy conditions etc. I think they've struggled with this in F3J for a while but now several years later it has been accepted to buy a light version with reduced strength and maybe finish.

/Mattias
hi mattias,

yes i agree on that. i think the spar can be really thin(light) near the tip , it will hold up launch and flight perfectly but when someone check's stiffnes by bending the wing , it could bucklle where the thumb is placed for example...

same thing for fuselage , people check strenght by pressing on the tailboom , not really a kind of force seen on lauch or flight.

there are many places to lose some weight but it all lower's the resistance to abuse ...


i consider using stf tape for sparcaps on my high ar project cause it will be much stiffer , especailly on such a thin wing.


i'm very curoius about the 130gr wing , i didn' get those number's (came close but didn't get those) and the polaris wing has more area and volume...

-kristof-
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 03:13 PM
usaf3kteam
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Joined Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by dbone View Post
To answers any questions you may have about the Polaris I sold my Stobel and will be doing the same with my Twister 2 as soon as I can get another Polaris. I flew 16 rounds this weekend 13 of which I got 1000's. Day 2 opened with dead air and the task was 3 three's of course I had Charlie and Jun in my heat. Results, I was the only pilot to score a 1000 in my heat this plane can float. I found and small bubble and just held launch height. Paul also flew very well and deserves credit for showcasing this model at BSOAZ. As far as the rudderless thing goes fly what you like but I like what I have seen so far. Great job MMT!
Donnie
Go team Apollo!
They should give you two a free plane each for all that advertisement.
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 03:42 PM
Throw it like you hate it
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United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by MaddSkillz View Post
Should be interesting to follow the evolution of this rudderless thing and if it's determined that it is actually a fact that it benefits the planes and their soaring ability. If so, will there be rudderless classes in the competitions or will everyone simply gravitate towards ownership of rudderless planes?
this concept has been discussed ad naseum. do a search and you will find out peoples' thoughts and feelings. but i guess i might as well give my input being that i am flying a rudderless polaris right now. first of all, if you asked me if i was a rudderless guy, i would say "no". i do have a rudderless polaris though but i am a rudder guy. however, i really didnt see a difference in handling without a rudder. the biggest problem i faced was when i first maidened the plane, i would wiggle the left stick and nothing happened. my first response was "oh ! i am locked out!" i then mixed in about 30% of aileron to the rudder stick and everything got better. i still fly the plane with both thumbs though. i am just used to having a rudder.

also, i thought that not having a rudder would hinder turn-arounds and control on approach. with flaps deployed, you lose a bit of roll control. i usually counter this by using the rudder to steer the plane in on approach. i found that with proper placement of the plane, it tracked very well into my hand for fast turnarounds.

there are a few tricks to remember. first when you are coming in for approach, get the plane low, about two feet off the deck. the air is less turbulent down low. also, dont stand directly upwind of the plane on approach. your body chops up the air and makes the plane bobble off course. if you stand to the side the entire approach, the air is smooth and clean and the plane will not need as much correction. these are a couple techniques i use to deal with not having a rudder. also, i have programmed in 100% diff when the flaps are deployed to about 60%. that is, they only come up, and come up a lot, almost to the root. this gives me more roll control on approach.

also, i have yet to play with diff in my other flight modes. right now, i have symmetric throws in all flight modes. i will play more with it later.

but all in all, i am just so impressed with this plane. i am with Donnie. i am going to sell some of my planes now. i see myself flying my polaris more. this plane is really a pleasure to fly.

also, i got a midair in the first round of the second day. when i brought the plane down after the flight, it had a small bite out of the LE. i put some tape over it to try to get the airfoil back and flew it the rest of the day and all the way through the flyoffs and i didnt hold back on launch at all. it this were a hollow-molded plane, the plane would have been grounded for the rest of the contest. solid-core molded wing technology is the cat's meow: accuracy and robustness. its a great plane!
paul
go team douche!
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 08:28 PM
M Seid
Solana Beach, Ca
Joined Sep 2006
2,999 Posts
you can say douche on rc groups? a whole new world has opened up for me.

Such a pleasure to watch paul fly this weekend. Donnie as well. I timed for Paul during what I think he will admit are both personal bests (and olympic world records) Paul dropped (no douching around..) 4 seconds in his prelim 1,2,3,4, and 3 seconds in his 3x3:20 in the flyoffs. Now, the air was butter smooth in the flyoffs, but there was ZERO issues with his approach, setup, and glide path without a rudder. The plane came in on rails, he did the running "air claw" and engaged the peg for the turnaround. Clean. I wish I had it on video. The best thing you can do for your pilot in turnaround tasks is to make sure your cadence is consistent, and clear. I always make the last 10 seconds loud enough for the pilot to hear. For paul, I was prepared for his tip catches going into each countdown, knowing that I needed to be precise and accurate on the watch. Stop. quick look. start. Read those 4 words again, and thats how fast he did it. without a rudder. PLane is awesome, and paul has come a long way since those early contests in Eldo.

His point above about setting up for the turn around and keeping your body from creating extra turbulence is a good one to practice.
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Old Nov 08, 2011, 07:40 AM
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Sweden
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Originally Posted by RCPC View Post
there are a few tricks to remember. first when you are coming in for approach, get the plane low, about two feet off the deck. the air is less turbulent down low. also, dont stand directly upwind of the plane on approach. your body chops up the air and makes the plane bobble off course. if you stand to the side the entire approach, the air is smooth and clean and the plane will not need as much correction. these are a couple techniques i use to deal with not having a rudder. also, i have programmed in 100% diff when the flaps are deployed to about 60%. that is, they only come up, and come up a lot, almost to the root. this gives me more roll control on approach.
I agree and these applies regardless of rudder or not. One thing I would add on the approach is to apply full brakes early to reduce the flightspeed then reduce brakes to keep good flightspeed and control as it's more critical closer to the catch. If done correctly turnaround time will be reduced due to the high flightspeed into the catch.

/Mattias
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Old Nov 13, 2011, 01:45 PM
Håkan Nate Sjöberg
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Sverige, Västra Götalands Län, Göteborg
Joined Jan 2004
64 Posts
Spent the weekend in the work shop

Love the camaraderie at my club. We get together and build stuff with brief pauses, browsing through the latest Aufwind, discussing our next car purchase, drinking coffee, talking about must have gliders 2012, planning trips to the alps - maybe more of a social meeting come to think of it

I did however manage to install my latest ship (65gsm carbon). Came in at 273 grams ready to fly. Test flight you ask!? Uhm, the sun had already set due to all the social aspects above so I didn't get to actually fly the thing. One more thing to look forward to this week.

It looks sharp.
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Old Nov 13, 2011, 02:06 PM
Team ATX Pilot
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Phx. Az.
Joined Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by isobar View Post
Love the camaraderie at my club. We get together and build stuff with brief pauses, browsing through the latest Aufwind, discussing our next car purchase, drinking coffee, talking about must have gliders 2012, planning trips to the alps - maybe more of a social meeting come to think of it

I did however manage to install my latest ship (65gsm carbon). Came in at 273 grams ready to fly. Test flight you ask!? Uhm, the sun had already set due to all the social aspects above so I didn't get to actually fly the thing. One more thing to look forward to this week.

It looks sharp.
Very nice looking ship. Be sure to include a flight report.

I got out this weekend and did some flying with the Polaris, I have to tell you I am liking this plane more and more every time I put it in the air. I was able to fly with ballast this time and was happy with the results. I feel the plane floats much better than any other plane I have had with almost 3 oz of lead. I really pushed to see how far away I could get and then return home. I do think the Stobel ranges a bit better but with the way the plane floats I don't need to go as far. I can stay up in lighter air with less weight to return home which in my mind is an advantage. Starting to really enjoy rudderless, still playing with set up but it has not given me any trouble. I allowed and friend to try the Polaris and when he was done he said "I'm going to have to stop giving people a hard time about rudderless", he was able to see that it's not that different with proper set up. All and all I think this plane is great and is one of the best on the market. Thanks again MMT.
Donnie
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Old Nov 13, 2011, 02:42 PM
Thermal, where art thou?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCPC View Post
also, i have yet to play with diff in my other flight modes. right now, i have symmetric throws in all flight modes. i will play more with it later.
Keep us posted on the use of aileron differential. You too, Donnie. There doesn't seem to be a consensus for rudderless planes from what I've read in various forums, and it's probably different from plane to plane. Or is it? My only reference is the Paul Naton video with Bruce, and they both use "negative" diff to varying degrees.

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Old Nov 13, 2011, 07:13 PM
Kyle Clayton
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United States, VA, Dinwiddie
Joined Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by isobar View Post
Love the camaraderie at my club. We get together and build stuff with brief pauses, browsing through the latest Aufwind, discussing our next car purchase, drinking coffee, talking about must have gliders 2012, planning trips to the alps - maybe more of a social meeting come to think of it
Where do I send the club dues to join? Sounds like my kind of get together
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Old Nov 13, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Wave Glider View Post
Where do I send the club dues to join? Sounds like my kind of get together
I'm in, can we carpool to the alps...?
Nice Polaris, 273grams... of hotness.
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Old Nov 13, 2011, 08:51 PM
Mike M.
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United States, UT, Eden
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Wow, nice shop isobar!
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Old Nov 13, 2011, 08:53 PM
PLD
Magicsmoke maker
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Australia, QLD, Charters Towers
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Originally Posted by like.2.fly View Post
Wow, nice shop isobar!
Disgustingly clean
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 04:05 AM
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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
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Good lookin plane ! & workshop
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Tampere, Finland
Joined Oct 2009
142 Posts
Just a small question to Polaris builders:

Is the tape covering the hinge line gap just taped to the non moving part of the wing?

According to Dbones photos of his Polaris wing he doesn't have tape at all? Or have I just missed it?

I am doing another dlg and started thinking about that tape. Is it needed at all or would it be enough that it covers the gap when the ailerons are at neutral position?

The Polaris looks great, I am tempted to order one. Sweden isn't that far off, when you live in Finland!

Tommy
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