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Old Jan 25, 2012, 08:18 PM
My Co-Pilots Rock!!
wolfewinde's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined May 2011
1,665 Posts
P-40 Pics

These are pics of the P-40. Paint theme is partially done green/gray camo on top with gray bottom and black wingtips - I like easy orientation.

I also just like to paint them just enough to be oriented when they fly - then see if they fly well enough to warrant giving them a final finish - they need to earn their decals LOL. I am tired of putting hours into a model only to find out they don't fly well or don't survive the maiden.

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Wolfe
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 08:43 PM
My Co-Pilots Rock!!
wolfewinde's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined May 2011
1,665 Posts
P-40 videos

This is the maiden flight - second take off - first flight. She is busy flying loops all by herself while I am giving massive down elevator trim everytime she goes into another loop. Finally got her trimmed enough to finish the battery and land and adjust the CG

doug gws p-40 maiden (0 min 47 sec)


This is the first landing

doug p-40 first landing (0 min 7 sec)


I have basically learned over the years not to fight a tail heavy airplane too much. Fly them up high with down elevator and then just let them loop their hearts out until you can get enough down trim to have some chance to land them. If I had tried to fly and land this airplane without getting time to get some trimming done it probably would have been a disaster.

This airplane is not a floater by any means. She needs some speed to be stable in the air and she needs to land a little hot, but she flies pretty well once you get her sorted out

Wolfe
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 11:11 PM
Shelter Kitty "Orange Death"
bartricky's Avatar
United States, FL, Monroe
Joined Jan 2008
3,165 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfewinde View Post

I also just like to paint them just enough to be oriented when they fly -

Wolfe
Me too

I think you talked me out of the P-40

Pic of my old Mosa..
New one will be similar..
Had invasion stripes on the bottom of the wing.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 12:55 AM
Registered User
Taiwan, 北市
Joined Dec 2010
1,215 Posts
Hi Wolfe,

Congratulation for the good maiden ! The AUW, 26 oz, of your P-40 is perfect for its power set in my idea. Its wing area is big, so I would adjust its down thrust instead, and put back the elevator trim to neutral, then have another test to see if it could land not that hot. Or just simply trim back the elevator during the landing patterns. Just my two cents.

Chen
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 04:18 AM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, North York
Joined Jan 2005
4,790 Posts
Wolfe, you were there and I wasn't but I don't understand why the plane appeared to be pretty controllable at the beginning of the flight and then started to go into continuous loops. Had you opened the throttle more? Are you sure no part of the elevator control linkage had slipped?

Easy enough to check whether it's a CG or down-thrust problem just by checking out the dead stick situation. If it still want to stick its nose up then it's more likely to be CG or elevator trim. An unlikely alternative is that the wing incidence is wrong but so far as I know the Zero is only GWS model where that's likely to be a cause, unless you can see the wing isn't seated properly.

Yours may well be more powerful than mine but it's much more squirrely than mine - control movements or expo? In my experience the bigger GWS warbirds - FW 190, P40 and AT-6 - are all much less likely to be jumping about in the sky than their smaller brethren.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 08:59 AM
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United States, NJ, Frenchtown
Joined Mar 2003
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I agree.
The only problems I Get are if I ...DO NOT....solidly secure the battery AFTER finding the COG. Battery shifts are great for a good COG going nutso, after a powered takeoff.
Especially if the battery is all the way foward.

Rich
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:15 AM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, North York
Joined Jan 2005
4,790 Posts
Just got my umpty umptyeth P51D done, although a bit too breezy for the maiden. I took a lazy decision that the canopy off the previous one - which was pretty much the only part that wasn't rekitted back into polystyrene beads in the incident that drew a close to its existence - could return into service on the latest one.

The new one is EPO, the late lamented was EPS. The decision to use the EPS canopy/battery hatch on the EPO plane had an unforeseen outcome. You'd have to characterize the finish of this latest one as "snakeskin" but you'll notice below where I did two close-ups of the EPS canopy against the EPO fuselage. Not a pretty sight, and to be honest, not a good promotion for EPO. I have quite a few non GWS EPO foam planes and while I would hesitate to say the surface of any of them was better than EPS this is the most unsatisfactory that I've seen.

I'm not an expert on foam moulding but so far as I know most EPO foamies are produced from moulds that were designed to use EPO feedstock whereas the GWS EPO mouldings are produced in what were originally EPS moulds and I guess there has to be a clever balance in temperature and pressure which hasn't quite worked here?
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:42 AM
My Co-Pilots Rock!!
wolfewinde's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined May 2011
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Heya Guys,

The reason it looks like she took off pretty smoothly is that I was holding down elevator on the take off roll since i was going downwind and wanted her to build up some speed before she lifted off. Right after lift off you can see her start to climb pretty steeply - that was when I let the stick re-center Then I was feeding her down elevator while she climbed up to where she starts looping.

Once she got high enough I let the stick center again and you can see the loops that occured. You can see the loops widen out as she starts to get down elevator trim, until she finally pretty much stalls out going straight up on about the fourth or fifth loop - after that she flew OK, but was still climbing a little with a neutral stick and I was out of trim.

On subsequent flights she flew a lot better after I moved the battery and the CG forward.
some.

The battery is sitting in a "foam pocket" so it can't shift. Linkage is fine - she flew pretty smoothly on the 4 flights following the maiden after the CG change.

I was running 35% expo and 100% throw on all surfaces. I dropped the elevator throw to 90% after I found she wanted to snap at the 100% throw with full up. She still tries to snap a little at 90% - am guessing 80% elevator would be the best set up, but did not try that yet.

I did not mean to discourage anyone from this airplane, there was nothing wrong with her once I got her sorted out. But I would have to say I like the Formosas better..

I tend to run the CG on all of my planes as far back as I can get away with so they at least get close to neutral inverted. That does make them all a little more touchy than most people might like.

Roger - nice P-51

Wolfe
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:59 AM
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United States, NJ, Frenchtown
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Rearward COG.

Rich
The COG Chicken.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 10:15 AM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, North York
Joined Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfewinde View Post
Heya Guys,

...........I was running 35% expo and 100% throw on all surfaces. I dropped the elevator throw to 90% after I found she wanted to snap at the 100% throw with full up. ..............
Wolfe
Now there's a braver guy than me (or just plain sharper, very likely). With the Dx8 I have three choices of rate and typically I'd start out with 50% on the ailerons, 50% on the elevator and maybe 80% on the rudder in low rate. maybe 65/65/90 on the middle rate and 75/80 on the ailerons, 70 on the elevator and 100% on rudder. And I tend to use between 30 and 50% expo.

I also start out with the CG towards the forward limit.

I've got to say I've never yet crashed a plane on maiden because I didn't have enough control movement, but I learned the hard way that I could sure as hell have too much - which may be a commentary on my ageing reflexes.

Anyway I start out on low rate, get myself at least two mistakes high and then try the higher rates to give me a feel for what suits my flying style best. I'll normally set it to fly "comfortable" on rate 2 but try and remember (not always successfully) to bring it down to rate 1 on landing. If anyone has a Spitfire that needs more than a midge's of movement in the elevator they must be very sharp or very nose heavy. And the elevons on my Alula, you almost need a magnifying glass to see any movement in pitch but the plane can sure as hell tell!
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 10:41 AM
My Co-Pilots Rock!!
wolfewinde's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined May 2011
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I didn't know that the DX8 had 3 sets of rates/expo - that would be very nice.

I normally used to set low rates at 65 ail/65 elev/ 75 rudder with expo at 35% on all throws. I set high rates at 85/85/100 with expo at 40%

However. in the last month I have started flying some 3D airplanes - not that I want to go 3D, but I wanted to learn better rudder control, and 3D planes slow down very well. - gives me more time to engage the brain - always dangerous since it locks up occasionally

Those throws are set on high rates at 150% on all surfaces with 75% expo - very strange and it has taken some getting used to - and it is going to take more getting used to LOL

Because of that, I now assign all rates/ throws to the aileron switch so I can change back and forth easily. So I set the P-40 up pretty aggressively on high rates - 100/100/100 at 35% and set the low rates at 75/75/95 with the same expo. I was ready to shift back to low rates, but found I was comfortable with the higher rates and actually needed them because the trim and CG were so bad at first.

I am really trying to get "softer" on the sticks now anyway and making progress with that, I think

I haven't flown the GWS Spit for a while now, but I still remember how sensitive that elevator was. 50% elevator throw would be lot on that airplane, I think

Wolfe
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 02:52 PM
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United Kingdom, Cnwll
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Lombard View Post
Just got my umpty umptyeth P51D done, although a bit too breezy for the maiden. I took a lazy decision that the canopy off the previous one - which was pretty much the only part that wasn't rekitted back into polystyrene beads in the incident that drew a close to its existence - could return into service on the latest one.
that's a lovely looking Mustang


I've finally taken the plunge and revealed the "Merlin" on my Spit - fortunately, the mount I used had to be mounted some way back on the stick, so having chopped the cowling off I've now moved it as far forward as possible, and have started to create a carbon fibre "jig" to re-attach it. Wish I'd done this first and painted it as a Mk14 now...

.... okay, here's the story. It's a refurbished Mk14 that has recently been repainted in a commemorative Battle of Britain Scheme, and is flown by a Typhoon pilot on his days off (in other words, I can't be arsed to repaint it now and the modern jet pilot was the cheapest scale one I could find )
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 03:15 PM
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United States, IA, Greenfield
Joined Apr 2010
582 Posts
Funniest thing happened yesterday.....

There is nothing like taking off from your street and flying your Slow Stick around the neighborhood. It was some of the most fun I have had in the hobby. I went up for a steep climb.

KABOOM My wings folded! Yippee

Like a rocket my SS came crashing onto the pavement.

My Fuselage is pretty mangled. Luckily, my motor had no damage.

Fun times!

-Brandon
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 03:25 PM
My Co-Pilots Rock!!
wolfewinde's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined May 2011
1,665 Posts
There is something special about taking off in your front yard. I do that with my Pico Moth now and then. It involves dodging palm trees and light poles on the take off and landing, but I can fly up and over the neighbors houses

Sorry the wing folded on you - bummer

Lord - I think your story will work - stick to it. Probably the best fix you could have come up with

Roger - taking off in low rates and switching back to them to land is something the 3D guys do a lot. The throws on those airplanes are insane to a basic "scale guy" like me. But now that I have been introduced to it, I think it will change the way I set up other airplanes . For example, the 3D airplanes roll so quickly I can barely keep track of whether they are up right or inverted,. By comparison, my warbirds now seem like they roll too slowly, so I am upping the aileron throw to 100% on all of them now - would not have done that before. This is all still pretty new to me, so I will be experimenting for a while with my rates/ throws and expo I imagine

Wolfe
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 12:17 PM
always something to learn...
metalguy's Avatar
Tacoma, WA
Joined Jan 2011
2,904 Posts
Wolfe, I have tried to fly some 3D planes on my sim, and it ends up in catastrophe. It got better after I started flying helis, as my thumbs weren't as heavy, but I haven't gotten the knack as yet. I think one day I may try one out, but I have to develop some more nural pathways to my thumbs first!
@ Brandon, Bummer about your SS. The good thing is, fusalages are pretty cheap, the bad is that you will probably have to wait for one when you order it. I got two, after my elevator horn pulled off during a low loop....So don't feel like the Lone Ranger on the wreck. Reinforce the wing at the joint, maybe add a layer of glass cloth to the bottom with some minwax water based sealer, and add your new fuse, and you should be set!
It looks like a good morning for he maiden on the Hobby King AT-6, so I am off! I hope I don't need to bring a bag.... LOL!------Metalguy
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