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Old Jan 03, 2013, 11:11 AM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
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Originally Posted by Skylane II View Post
I agree with you! But I am in doubt of a high wingloading that causes a quick tip-stall or high-speed-impact-approaches..
That doesnt't look very scale ..
Surprising just how slow the 182 will fly for a scale model ; using flaps. You can use an almost no power approach with 1/2 flap but with full flap definitely need some power; how much all depends on approach angle, surface wind speeds , flying ability and few others. The real big issue with tip stalling is the wing build. I regularly use a Robart incidence meter ( on all my models) to check the wing from side to side to make sure the wing has the same incidence on each side as you move out to the tips. The tip incidence being the most critical. Mine is within less than a 1/2 degree near each tip ; the meter not being much more acurate than that. Other things that can affect wing stall on this wing is the setings on the ailerons and flaps on one side vs the other. This is where digital servos are nice.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 07:37 PM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylane II View Post
I agree with you! But I am in doubt of a high wingloading that causes a quick tip-stall or high-speed-impact-approaches..
That doesnt't look very scale ..
Did you get an all up weight yet ??? If I remember correctly mine was arround 13.8 lbs or a hair under and weight is not a problem. I am sure I could go 14-15 lbs before any issues.... Just remember take it up to 400 feet and try slow speed flying and that still gives a lot of recovery altitude. Another owner was flying at 14.5 lbs and he said no problem except slow banking turns it did not like. How slow was; only he knows
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 10:11 PM
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Germany, NDS, Brunswick
Joined Dec 2012
50 Posts
I didn't have weigh her yet, but it will end up to 6,5 -7,0 kg I think..
And there is enough power to get her up in the air. The stall test at a safe altitude will show it..(400 ft= 133,33 m)
To the incidence you told is nothing I could do anymore, but the wing is well build on a straight old door, and I think a small incidence is given since building upside-down at the little jigs.
BTW I'm using a Hitec Aurora 9 so I'm able to adjustt each flap and aileron at itself, really cool!
The smooth surface of the covering with Oracover could be the bigger problem about tip stall, but we will see !
Now I've just made some fake-rivets on the Fuselage, the elevator and the fin - holy cow ...
Next week I get my "D- number" and the decals, so I'm on final.
I hope the rain will stops for a while next week to make a small vid from the soundunit- sounds really great..
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 11:35 AM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
How much weight have you used to balance her and where did you place it. Check posting #56 and see how I muonted mine. Reduced the balance weight required by almost 10 oz when I moved the balance weight required fron back of the firewall to inside the cowl.... now that is significant . Also copied and modified a bottom load for the lipo change like the ARF version and works well.

I hope to work on changing the aluminum landing gear out and using the ARF fibreglass version . I will plan on installing them in the kit spot ( under the 1/4 ply mount) and see how things measure up. If I find the plane sits too high then will consider mounting the main gear legs on top ( as in the ARF version) and will have to cut new installation holes and close off the old ones. Not a big problem though. I will take some pics as I go along and will post when time permits. When satisfied will have to do another C of G check and move my lead balance weight further foreward a little bit. The ARF wheel pants are nice but the nose one will require some work as it is setup for wire mount.

One other observation... are you using a Master Airscrew or a Graupner 16x8 prop as I don't recall if you mentioned ? If at all possible use the APC 16x8E prop as efficiency quite significant for flying.
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 12:53 PM
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Germany, NDS, Brunswick
Joined Dec 2012
50 Posts
I try to adjust the right C of G by moving the batteries.
I didnt like the idea of flying around some lead weihgts.
The flight pack (6S, 4000mA)is mounted directly under the motor mount and it's fixed.
The life batteries (2 x 2S 2200mA) are secured behind the firewall inside the fuse on the servo trail.
The light- and soundbatterie (3S 2200mA) is even fixed on the servotrail.
Everything is fine about the C of G now!
The intention is to reach the right point by moving the position of the light- /soundbatterie.
I must admid the big disadvantage is that the batteries are fixed in their position and charging the LiPo packs means disassamble the complete aircraft (struts, wing) , the flightpack can be charged in its installed position without dismantle the cowling.
A batterie hatch would be nice, but there is one of two speakers installed, were the hatch should be..
Doesn't matter- Maybe I will add one if I think that is necessary one day- and sometimes at the air-field growing some good ideas,too..
I'm very exited about your landing gear!
About the prop: thanks for the hint about the APC - E , I've got both types: Graupner ( 16 x 8) and Master-Airscrew (15 x 8 and 15 x 10)
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 08:29 PM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
Know what you mean about the Lead as I would never mount mine with double sided foam tape as that is just asking for trouble IMHO. You will note in my posted picture that I have used another bolt and a spacer midpoint on the lite ply portion to keep the ply from vibrating/oscillating . In other words mounted as solid as the motor mounts themselves.

Talking about motor mounts; this is my first Great Planes mount , and I find them first class and will definitly use them from now on. If the spacers to the X motor mounts won't work or if I need really long spacers ; it will be Great planes for sure . Worth the extra money, for sure.

I have a15X8x3 graupner here that I will try out this winter and see just what sort of extra current draw and rpm vs. the APC 16x8E and also compare the rpm and will report. I believe that the Graupner is probably a good prop but I also think that it sucks more prower ( like the Master Airscrew) vs the APC electric props. Supposedly the Xoar electric wood props are slightly more effiecient (I am told... amps wise) than the APC but will have to find out when I get a minute as I have one ( a 18x6) but haven't used it yet as they are a couple of times more expensive than the APC.
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Last edited by stegl; Jan 06, 2013 at 11:10 AM.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:30 AM
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Germany, NDS, Brunswick
Joined Dec 2012
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Yes, I've used the Great Planes mount, too. I have had it "in stock" cause it was planned to install it in another aircraft ( aerodynes fantastic Beech Baron G58 ) but I went to go with CNC engeneered fibre-glass mounts for the twin, less weight..!
But for the TF Cessna it works very well for me- the only issue I have is the non-metric-system of the screws, but I've bought some inch tools of course!
It's the first of 4 american- made Kit/ ARF planes I've got, so I need to have such tools again and again! I can not just get confused with the metric ones!
About Xoar props: I've heard about the good performance and they are distributed by Hacker in Germany - very expensive !
(f. e. 15 x 8 x3 42,90 €!!)
In another thread a guy called "Aros" have used it on an ARF TF Cessna in combination with a True-Turn spinner- very nice!- but the beauty has crashed, if I remember correctly
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 11:19 PM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
Right.... he failed to check on current draw and ran out of battery as he had gone to a 3 blader. Two blades are really more efficient. I do 5-6 minute flights ( by choice) and draw a total arround 1400 mah or less which is really not much with my 4000 and 4500 mah packs

There is a screw/bolt company you might consider looking at and see if they can supply you with an assortment of non-metric fastenings. The name is Micro Fasteners in Lebanon , NJ , USA. They have fasteners in good quality steel and stainless. I ordered some interesting button cap screws in the popular 2-56 , 4-40 , 6-32 as well as washers. Should check out their website as they have pretty much more than what you will need. Also found there some X-mount to brushless motor, mounting screws that use an allen wrench rather the Pillips screwdriver type. Best to sit down and take an inventory of what you will need and order all at one time to save on mailing.. Real good stuff. I always order extra .
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Last edited by stegl; Jan 07, 2013 at 01:32 PM.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 01:58 PM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
Not in rush to get ready for flying in a while now !
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 03:10 PM
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Skylane II's Avatar
Germany, NDS, Brunswick
Joined Dec 2012
50 Posts
Usually I change all inch screws and bolts to metric ones if it's possible, thats the more simple way .
But thank you very much for the hint !
Sometimes there is no chance , especily when inch bolts, washers or nuts are given by prebuild of the factory, like the E-Flite Piper 25 E Super cub !
E-Flite should give an extra Allen wrench for european customers to this ARF, and under no circumstances should you lose the 6/32 " in the grass of the air-field !
OK, back to the Cessna: While it snowed in Kelowna at least, it's raining here for weeks! Time to bring on more rivetsd and Decals..
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 03:25 PM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Oct 2005
155 Posts
That looks brilliant! Fantastic rivet work. I contemplated doing rivets on my Skylane but just didn't have the patience for it. A job well done "Skylane II".
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 03:47 PM
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Germany, NDS, Brunswick
Joined Dec 2012
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Hey crowe,
thank you!
It's pretty simple, all you need is PONAL wood glue, a insulin syringe, duct tape and a little care an patience.
First you have to make marks on the duct tape ( about 1 cm ), then you bring on the tape were the rivets should be and start to bring on drop by drop to the surface. Thats all !!
I've trained it by 2 or 3 attempts on a peace of section waste and its worth of the work! The complete plane is done at 3 evenings, and if you fail, doesn't matter: wipe it awav, dry or wet-try it..!!
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 05:59 PM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
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Originally Posted by crowe04 View Post
That looks brilliant! Fantastic rivet work. I contemplated doing rivets on my Skylane but just didn't have the patience for it. A job well done "Skylane II".
Come on Crowe... thats my excuse ! I have seen your interior detail and that should just be another chapter in your book...LOL . Not for me at this time as I try and spend my time in making it fly better I guess. Also have more work to do on my H9 Twin Otter trim/decals and hopefully to be able to get the rear float gear to look more scale like. may also try and get a little topside float trim done like drain holes and such.
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Last edited by stegl; Jan 08, 2013 at 10:49 AM.
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 09:06 AM
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Germany, NDS, Brunswick
Joined Dec 2012
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Ah, Hangar 9 DHC Tw' otter !
Speaking of twins, this will gonna be the next general aviation project :
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 10:54 AM
stegl
Kelowna , BC
Joined Nov 2008
2,442 Posts
Ahha , Skylane .... I see you are also inflicted with the " twin disease " also ?

I would love to see a PBY /Canso twin or Mosquito in the 80 inch class with pull off wings outboard of the motors and with lipo changing like the TO . I know you can build off plans but I am afraid being retired I don't have the time.

Nice thing with living in Canada, we have both imperial and metric nuts and bolts.....
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Last edited by stegl; Jan 08, 2013 at 11:01 AM.
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