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Old Oct 22, 2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknoob View Post
Custer Channel Wing:



like the design, only thing what if an engine quits wile in slow flight/ hover
of course today that'd be easily solved with a ballistic chute or retro rocket recovery system

-of course now I remember the V-22 and it's cross linkage. for a hover version of this plane maybe something like that could be worked out...
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 11:48 PM
Diverted by planks
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South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pow-wow View Post
like the design, only thing what if an engine quits wile in slow flight/ hover
of course today that'd be easily solved with a ballistic chute or retro rocket recovery system

-of course now I remember the V-22 and it's cross linkage. for a hover version of this plane maybe something like that could be worked out...
Quote:
In the 1960's, The channelwing was studied by Rhein Flugseubau Company of Monchengladbach, West Germany, for the German government. Their chief engineer, Hanno Fisher, was recognized as one of the finest engineers in germany. He added several new concepts to the Custer. On the RFV-1 he placed a single channel on top of the aircraft, on centerline. This removed the need to cross shaft the two engines, which drove a single prop behind the channel, and erased any roll problem experienced in case of an engine out on takeoff, or during low speed operation. This was seen as a plus, even though a single channel creates less static vertical lift. Fisher also added an annular duct around the prop, which transitioned into the Custer channel. This added low speed thrust and channel lift, while helping solve the critical, prop tip / channel clearance, at various power settings. He also added an "oberflügel" in front of the duct, and in the channel, which added extra static lift. Considerable research was done at the University of Aachon, 20 miles from their production facility along with 100 actual flight tests. work on the RFV-1 progressed through these flight tests, but apparently didn't survive fine tuning. According to one knowledgeable source, Rhein Flugseubau decided to add extra width to the fuselage, to gain passenger space. The added structure interfered with the airflow into the channel, reducing the efficiency, and eventually dooming the German project, due to an austerity program by the government in the 60's. This caused a lack of funds to re-work the passenger area and the project was dropped sometime in the late 60's,
http://www.rexresearch.com/custer/custer.htm

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Quote:
[from the 'cons' list of engineering analysis] The requirement for cross shafting of the engines to avoid uncontrollable assymetric forces in the event of an engine failure when at a low airspeed, high angle of attack flight condition. (Custer concedes that production aircraft will be cross shafted.) This requirement of course dilutes the CCW claim for simplicity.
http://www.rexresearch.com/custer/custer.htm
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 09:13 AM
Canada
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Joined May 2009
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F-22. Lots of wing surface.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 09:31 AM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
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United States, OR, Deschutes
Joined Jul 2009
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I do my best thinking late at night...last nights' pearl of wisdom was.....

What can this technology do for slope soaring? "Micro sloping" perhaps?

Would it be "cheating" the wind...?

Would it "dumb down" and negate the entire reason us sloperz like to get out there...to challenge and fly in the face of major blows?

Would it make possible tiny "micro-wing" slopers that are stable (with appropriate ballast) in just about any gale?

Imagine....an 8" w/s Combatwing you can flick off a cliff or mountain like a frisbee, and have it be as stable as my 48" one pictured down there. Or, one might be able to slope the tiniest hills, with the lightest of breezes...wind not having the courtesy of course to scale up or down to accomodate our craft. Dunno if the linear servos would be up to the task though.....

Enquiring minds want to know!!


Bud, full of ideas Bud


Ooh ooh....gotta go..."The Aviators" is on...one I haven't seen.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 09:38 AM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Never did any slope soaring myself, so I'm curious.... I had the impression that you had to "feel" the wind when soaring for optimal performance, so I'm wondering if the AS3X would not be bad in this case, since you could not feel it as much?

Though I may be totally wrong... I had fun "simili-soaring" my Vapor 400ft in the air, and could not really feel anything, it was just floating there, riding thermals
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 09:40 AM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
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United States, OR, Deschutes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
Never did any slope sloaring myself, so I'm curious.... I had the impression that you had to "feel" the wind when flying for optimal performance, so I'm wondering if the AS3X would not be bad in this case, since you could not feel it as much?

Though I may be totally wrong... I had fun "simili-soaring" my Vapor 400ft in the air, and could not really feel anything, it was just floating there, riding thermals

Yeah...feeling the wind is key..it's a weird but neat feeling...

"The Aviators" is about Sun n Fun in Lakeland...had no idea a microburst flipped over and/or damaged over 40 aircraft!!
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 09:54 AM
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USA, NY, Syracuse
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I'd like to see a small Boeing P-26 with this technology, maybe between 20" -24" span.

Tom
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Last edited by tr4252; Oct 23, 2011 at 10:19 AM. Reason: included picture
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 09:57 AM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4252 View Post
I'd like to see a small Boeing P-26 with this technology, maybe between 20" -24" span.

Tom
That would be a cute lil micro...sure would need lots of flying wires though.

but...tsk tsk must follow the rules...post a pic.

Here let me help:
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 10:26 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Although I've only flown true gliders in the sim, I have thermalled a number of planes that weren't designed for the purpose. It seems to me that a system like this would likely remove many of the visual cues one uses to recognize where the lift is. I've always used things like subtle pitch changes and little waggles of the tail & wings to figure out what's going on up there. If the stab/aug system dampens them out, what would one use? Could the frequencies that signify lift be filtered out digitally, so the system would ignore lift-related turbulence?

Joel
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 10:48 AM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
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United States, OR, Deschutes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Although I've only flown true gliders in the sim, I have thermalled a number of planes that weren't designed for the purpose. It seems to me that a system like this would likely remove many of the visual cues one uses to recognize where the lift is. I've always used things like subtle pitch changes and little waggles of the tail & wings to figure out what's going on up there. If the stab/aug system dampens them out, what would one use? Could the frequencies that signify lift be filtered out digitally, so the system would ignore lift-related turbulence?

Joel
yeah, I don't think the system would be feasible for thermaling...watching for that wing dip/push up signals there's a thermal...but sloping, not so much, the wind is more horizontal..."slope" or "wave" lift doesn't depend on rising warm air...just a nice steady blow. The system may work well to dampen inconsistencies..
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 10:59 AM
If it's R/C, it's all good.
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USA, WI, Wausau
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A sea plane. Any plane they can fly off water. CL-415, 4 channel Beaver with floats, PBY, a UM version of their new Icon A5, etc. Anything!
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 11:16 AM
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... sorry, guys, you missed the most sexiest plane ever ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-14-vf-84.jpg

... in a nice sweep-wing Jolly Rogers design of course ...

Regards,

Christian
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 11:21 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maukabud View Post
yeah, I don't think the system would be feasible for thermaling...watching for that wing dip/push up signals there's a thermal...but sloping, not so much, the wind is more horizontal..."slope" or "wave" lift doesn't depend on rising warm air...just a nice steady blow. The system may work well to dampen inconsistencies..
Makes sense. Would the DSS guys benefit from a system like this? I've watched many of the record DSS speed runs on 'Tube. ~500 MPH without an engine! Absolutely incredible!!!!

Tx is almost charged, and of course - the leaves are no longer standing still. Wind's supposed to be 8-14 MPH. Looks like I'll be leaving the small stuff in the hangar today. At least it's out of the south - blowing straight down the runway.

See? If I had an AS3X-equipped micro right now, I could take a UM ship up for a romp in the backyard - despite the turbulence that's caused by the wind rolling off the surrounding trees.

Joel
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 11:26 AM
HELP I AM BEING SET UP!!
maukabud's Avatar
United States, OR, Deschutes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
See? If I had an AS3X-equipped micro right now, I could take a UM ship up for a romp in the backyard - despite the turbulence that's caused by the wind rolling off the surrounding trees.

Joel
lol! That was what changed my mind about AS3X, the day after it's unveiling...looking out the window at the wind...I could just about feel the light bulb materialize over my head.

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Old Oct 23, 2011, 11:46 AM
Flash, AAAAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhh
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United States, UT, West Jordan
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a prop in slot su-47 berkut or f-15 active with canards/ailerons/and elevators all hooked up. an awesome super aerobatic jet would be awesome.
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