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Old Oct 22, 2011, 07:53 AM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Turbo,

We're simply grasping on anything that could allow us to move the AS3X board from one airplane to the other. Yes, the answer was VERY clear, we CANNOT! But until the website get fixed, we can still hope!

Here's the "official" contradictions so far:

- HH web site having the same part number for the AS3X board for the Beast and the Gee Bee. (this is more than likely a webmaster mistake, but until it's corrected, who knows)

- The AS3X receiver (part number EFLU4864) has this interesting note: "If using this receiver to replace an AR6400LBL board, you will need to ensure that you are using 2.3-gram Performance Linear Long Throw Servos (SPMSA2030L) with this receiver." (this open a wide door! though it could be a note just for the old Beast which has the same airframe as the new one)

- Unlike most flybarless system, it's been confirmed that there's no accelerometers on the board (which would give the board more "flexibility").

- CG less critical as apposed to more critical. You can move it back for more agility, with less impact on stability.

Those will likely be fixed in the next few days as I do also agree that they must be specific to each airframes. There's no way the gains and rates on the Gee Bee could be close to the one on the Beast. But the beauty of all that information is the fact that until it's fixed, we can still dream to put the board in our Sbach, and hope that the all the gains are "loose" enough to allow us to fly it. Basically, a bit like when you first fly your big heli. When you set up the tail gyro, you go average everywhere on the setting, get it in the air, and it won't crash. Sure, it won't be perfect, and tuning is needed, but there's somewhat of a large bandwidth that "does the trick". In the programming of the board, they have to allow for variations in manufacturing for a specific airframe anyway. We already know how much variation we can find on a model (mine is nose heavy, mine is tail heavy, etc). I don't think that you will loose control of your aircraft if you loose your spinner in flight either.

So no, I would not move a typical finely tuned flybarless system (with accelerometers) from one heli to another heli and hope to fly it with no problems. But one system designed to compensate for manufacturing differences with no accelerometers? Until they close all the doors that are open currently, I'm still crossing my fingers! Basically, I'm betting that if you remove a good chunck of a aileron on a Beast 3D, the system will simply give more aileron on that side to compensate and still fly fine. It doesn't know that the aileron is damaged, all it knows is, I have to move the ailerons (with a certain gain and rate) until the aircraft does what I want it to do. Sure enough, if the chunk is to big, the correction will be too slow, or eventually maxed out, but the question is, did they left us lot of room or is it as finely tuned as it could be...
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 08:55 AM
QuAd FaNaTiC
Razors edge 29's Avatar
Canada
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Scratch builders will most likely not be able to use these new bricks Which sucks, BUT you can still use the older ones.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:39 AM
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Canada, ON, Barrie
Joined Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by Razors edge 29 View Post
Scratch builders will most likely not be able to use these new bricks Which sucks, BUT you can still use the older ones.
What confuses me is that how I fail to see how limiting people from using the bricks on their planes for scratch builds would benefit HH. I think they probably sold 1 Beast to scratch builders for the guts for every 2 Beasts they sold to people who actually wanted to fly the air frame.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:44 AM
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United States, NJ, Roseland
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All i know is that this system plus the nice slower speeds of a bi wing stunt plane should work out REAL nice. i have been looking for a smaller plane with some speed and power to fly right outside my townhome. I have the micro cub but you need ZERO wind and the power is just adequet.

This plane has the potential to be the perfect all round "fun" plane as it can fly with power in wind and slow down nicely. Im supprised that it slows down and is stabil enough that they are touting both outdoor AND indoor capabilities!

The hotter Sbach motor and a nice aftermarket performance battery should provide a huge flying envelope. cant wait!!!
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 01:31 PM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors edge 29 View Post
Scratch builders will most likely not be able to use these new bricks Which sucks, BUT you can still use the older ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by binaryclock View Post
What confuses me is that how I fail to see how limiting people from using the bricks on their planes for scratch builds would benefit HH. I think they probably sold 1 Beast to scratch builders for the guts for every 2 Beasts they sold to people who actually wanted to fly the air frame.
They are not limiting anything! They are doing the cheapest possible design to include awesome technology into small aircrafts. Sure enough, I would have paid an extra $10 on each board/aircrafts, if they had included a USB plug so you could program each parameters (like a flybarless system) individually, even if they sold the software for $100 to do it!

And I don't think they took the scratch builder out of the equation... It's probably the other way around! I don't see how you could move a board from a Beast to a Gee Bee because they are so much different, but any scratch builder could design an airplane that could match the caracteristics of let say the Beast. Remember, I'm pretty sure it's not as finely tuned as let say a 600 class heli doing tick tocks need to be. They have to allow for manufacturing differences. So, there's a margin where a similar airframe would likely work. So overall, I think after we get the final story on those boards, and after we get used to them, we may quite likely see some neat design that would say something like: "Plans for a SE5, that work with a Beast board".
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
Basically, I'm betting that if you remove a good chunck of a aileron on a Beast 3D, the system will simply give more aileron on that side to compensate and still fly fine.
I also think it works perhaps not 100% perfect but good enough.
The other 6400BL bricks have also some advantage programming features like throttle range, brake setting, helimode and other, maybe possible there are some gyro settings.
Another question can i fly a torque roll or eliminate the AS3X all torque effects?
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 05:22 PM
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Grenoble, France
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
So overall, I think after we get the final story on those boards, and after we get used to them, we may quite likely see some neat design that would say something like: "Plans for a SE5, that work with a Beast board".
Hi,

I really really hope you're right here, because when I'm spending some money (in Europe remember that there is 1$ = 1 euro hell magic involved ) on a micro foam plane, almost the same amount that can be spent on a bigger classic balsa one, I have this little voice saying "come on man, if you destroy this little thing you can take all the electronic appart and with 3 pieces of foam you can still build someting that you can fly..." and honestly that helps to know that. Reuse electronics and build something else is part of the hobby, so when buying a model I also buy the ability to use electronics elsewhere or in another time (meaning that if the model is discontinued you still have one RX). For what I read from know we have a really cool RX that I could buy standalone for making anything fly but it is model specific...
Having the interface for tunnig it is the key to this...
BTW I will continue to have my fleet growing but for known I have a problem not knowing which current UM will benefit the AS3X RX i.e. will we have a sukhoiXP or a polecat or a P51 or a sbach with this cool RX ??? or they all will be replaced by a similar model with gyros ?
I suppose that having an eye on the price of each one will give some clues...
Really really want a sbach/sukhoiXP-BL 3D there...

Happy flying !

--
Newbheli
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 06:36 PM
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Burlington, NJ USA
Joined Apr 2001
426 Posts
Despite the warnings that they're individually tuned boards, somebody will still rip the guts out of their Beast or GeeBee. They'll toss them into their scratch built model (with similar proportions) with no ill effects like originally predicted. Better yet, someone else will come up with a hack to program/fine tune the boards. Eventually, Horizon will most likely release a programmable version. BTW, nobody has even mentioned the MSR X; that's a AS3X model as well.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 08:15 PM
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Canada
Joined Aug 2009
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exactly

just because hh tells us not to; doesn't mean we will listen


Quote:
Originally Posted by bfaulguy View Post
Despite the warnings that they're individually tuned boards, somebody will still rip the guts out of their Beast or GeeBee. They'll toss them into their scratch built model (with similar proportions) with no ill effects like originally predicted. Better yet, someone else will come up with a hack to program/fine tune the boards. Eventually, Horizon will most likely release a programmable version. BTW, nobody has even mentioned the MSR X; that's a AS3X model as well.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 08:30 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by microheli View Post
I also think it works perhaps not 100% perfect but good enough.
The other 6400BL bricks have also some advantage programming features like throttle range, brake setting, helimode and other, maybe possible there are some gyro settings.
Another question can i fly a torque roll or eliminate the AS3X all torque effects?
MH,

HH says there are no field-adjustable parameters. Regarding torque-rolls - the AS3X Beast will just stand on its tail & hover. If you want to torque-roll, you will have to give it some aileron. But then it will sit there & do endless torque-rolls with minimal correction needed, like the 100cc version does - instead of falling out after a rotation or two like the V1 tends to do.

Joel
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:32 PM
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United States, NJ, Roseland
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That sounds more like heading hold Joel....Usually with my rate gyros, it acts like a dampning system to guard against sudden wind gusts etc. i.e. if im heading down the runway and a gust hits my tail, the Rate setting will quickly respond to the amt. of movement from the tail and keep it towards the runway. if I correct for the rudder myself say point the plane 30 degrees left, the plane will go to where i direct it and the Rate setting will then use that new heading to hold course. A rate gyro doesnt hold the last position it just dampens out the unwanted movement but you still can fly the plane like you normally would. Heading hold would keep the plane oriented in one specific direction and keep it doing the torque rolls endlessly......
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:54 PM
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidaven View Post
That sounds more like heading hold Joel....Usually with my rate gyros, it acts like a dampning system to guard against sudden wind gusts etc. i.e. if im heading down the runway and a gust hits my tail, the Rate setting will quickly respond to the amt. of movement from the tail and keep it towards the runway. if I correct for the rudder myself say point the plane 30 degrees left, the plane will go to where i direct it and the Rate setting will then use that new heading to hold course. A rate gyro doesnt hold the last position it just dampens out the unwanted movement but you still can fly the plane like you normally would. Heading hold would keep the plane oriented in one specific direction and keep it doing the torque rolls endlessly......
Dave,

I didn't mean that it would just hang there & do torque-rolls with no correction. I meant that it would hold a hover without countering the torque with ailerons, and that once you give it some aileron to get it torque-rolling, it would require minimal input to keep it standing on its tail.

Does that sound right?

Joel
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 10:14 PM
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Vancouver, BC
Joined Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by RealGambler View Post
Turbo,

We're simply grasping on anything that could allow us to move the AS3X board from one airplane to the other.

So no, I would not move a typical finely tuned flybarless system (with accelerometers) from one heli to another heli and hope to fly it with no problems. But one system designed to compensate for manufacturing differences with no accelerometers? Until they close all the doors that are open currently, I'm still crossing my fingers! Basically, I'm betting that if you remove a good chunck of a aileron on a Beast 3D, the system will simply give more aileron on that side to compensate and still fly fine. It doesn't know that the aileron is damaged, all it knows is, I have to move the ailerons (with a certain gain and rate) until the aircraft does what I want it to do. Sure enough, if the chunk is to big, the correction will be too slow, or eventually maxed out, but the question is, did they left us lot of room or is it as finely tuned as it could be...
This is my train of thought as well. Plus someone will surely try it if they have an extra $80 for the brick or they trash their original airframe, there is no reason not to try it and see what happens!
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 10:24 PM
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Sounds great!! Im wondering if theres going to be a way to adjust the gain somewhere? unless this is some kind of quasi gyro system....Wish they would get some more videos up!!! : )
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 10:37 PM
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Originally Posted by hidaven View Post
Sounds great!! Im wondering if theres going to be a way to adjust the gain somewhere? unless this is some kind of quasi gyro system....Wish they would get some more videos up!!! : )
Dave,

According to HH, the current versions are not field-programmable.

Joel
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