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Old Oct 21, 2011, 01:14 PM
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Look how many Beasts are in the classifieds! Dang!!!!
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 01:36 PM
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As a noob, who has run out of challenges with the Champ, and just missed the Beast V1, will this new Beast be easier to fly for my skill level...Or should I have to wait longer?
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by freesex View Post
and ,let's put it this way: is there any disadvantage of AS3X?
From what I gather:

It requires the new 2.3 g servos, so if you plan on getting the new AS3X equipped receiver for your scratch-build you'll need to invest in one or two of those for ailerons.
Higher weight of the receiver (I'm assuming here, it should come with upgraded and heavier on-board servos, plus whatever the extra gyro circuitry weighs)
Higher total current draw (shorter flight times, but by how much remains to be seen).
The gyro function can't be switched off.

Most importantly it levels the playing field and now SOME NOOB WILL MAKE YOUR HARD EARNED SKILLS LOOK LIKE NOTHING!

Also I'm not commiting until it's been confirmed that the box comes with a handle.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pouncer View Post
From what I gather:

It requires the new 2.3 g servos, so if you plan on getting the new AS3X equipped receiver for your scratch-build you'll need to invest in one or two of those for ailerons.
Higher weight of the receiver (I'm assuming here, it should come with upgraded and heavier on-board servos, plus whatever the extra gyro circuitry weighs)
Higher total current draw (shorter flight times, but by how much remains to be seen).
The gyro function can't be switched off.

Most importantly it levels the playing field and now SOME NOOB WILL MAKE YOUR HARD EARNED SKILLS LOOK LIKE NOTHING!

Also I'm not commiting until it's been confirmed that the box comes with a handle.
And the system won't work correctly in anything but an airframe with essentially identical flight characteristics to the airframe for which it was programmed. I don't understand why people don't get that part. It's no different than a fbl controller for a heli. A fbl unit that's programmed for a Gaui 255 simply won't work correctly on a Trex 450.

By nature, stability-augmentation systems (RC & full-scale) are airframe-specific. There is no generic programming that would work on a Cub, Beast, Sbach, and a scratch-built foamie. This would require reprogramming the system for each plane - as one does when moving a fbl unit to a different size/brand of heli. Without the ability to tweak the augmentation settings, putting an AS3X on a different airframe type would be a total crap-shoot. Actually, the odds of the flight-parameters matching between different style airframes would be even worse than shooting craps.

Joel
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
And the system won't work correctly in anything but an airframe with essentially identical flight characteristics to the airframe for which it was programmed. I don't understand why people don't get that part. It's no different than a fbl controller for a heli. A fbl unit that's programmed for a Gaui 255 simply won't work correctly on a Trex 450.

By nature, stability-augmentation systems (RC & full-scale) are airframe-specific. There is no generic programming that would work on a Cub, Beast, Sbach, and a scratch-built foamie. This would require reprogramming the system for each plane - as one does when moving a fbl unit to a different size/brand of heli. Without the ability to tweak the augmentation settings, putting an AS3X on a different airframe type would be a total crap-shoot. Actually, the odds of the flight-parameters matching between different style airframes would be even worse than shooting craps.

Joel
I agree with you if you're talking about using the brick from the hyper taxi, since that is a weird control setup, but I find it hard to believe that the brick from the beast would have trouble in, say, the sbach or the sukhoi XP for example. Maybe it would do funny things if you tried putting it in a modified champ with ailerons, but I still sorta think it would be ok. I suppose you might have to mess with the control throws and things to get it just right, but it seems to me like it should still work since all it's doing is moving the control surfaces against outside forces.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Firehawk989 View Post
I agree with you if you're talking about using the brick from the hyper taxi, since that is a weird control setup, but I find it hard to believe that the brick from the beast would have trouble in, say, the sbach or the sukhoi XP for example. Maybe it would do funny things if you tried putting it in a modified champ with ailerons, but I still sorta think it would be ok. I suppose you might have to mess with the control throws and things to get it just right, but it seems to me like it should still work since all it's doing is moving the control surfaces against outside forces.
Even the expert from HH do not seem to know for sure yet!

- The AS3X receiver (part number EFLU4864) has this interesting note: "If using this receiver to replace an AR6400LBL board, you will need to ensure that you are using 2.3-gram Performance Linear Long Throw Servos (SPMSA2030L) with this receiver." That part number is the same for the Beast and Gee Bee (from their respective part listing) and both airframes are very different.

Yet, we got this from Dave: Q: Can I change the gyro settings so I can use the boards in other airplanes?: A: No, the boards are not programmable in the field. Each board has programming specific to its intended airframe.

So who knows what the future reserve. We will have to wait until the dust settle I guess!
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Firehawk989 View Post
I agree with you if you're talking about using the brick from the hyper taxi, since that is a weird control setup, but I find it hard to believe that the brick from the beast would have trouble in, say, the sbach or the sukhoi XP for example. Maybe it would do funny things if you tried putting it in a modified champ with ailerons, but I still sorta think it would be ok. I suppose you might have to mess with the control throws and things to get it just right, but it seems to me like it should still work since all it's doing is moving the control surfaces against outside forces.
Firehawk,

I'm taking about the Gee Bee & Beast bricks. You would need to adjust the mix & gain settings to fit your application - just like you do with a heli's tail gyro or flybarless controller. For instance, the Beast 3D & Gee Bee use different programming, and the bricks are not interchangeable because of this fact. Hopefully, they will release a programmable version in the future.

This system is no different than a flybarless controller on a heli - and they must be reprogrammed when they're moved from one brand/model/size of heli to another.

The Beast doesn't fly anything like the Sbach or XP. The Sbach & XP share some traits, but the Beast is at the opposite end of the the scale. Completely different moments, completely different natural resonances, completely different near-stall behavior, completely different post-stall behavior. All of these things must be accounted for in the programming before a stability-augmentation system will work properly. What would be the point of using the system if it didn't work perfectly?

Joel
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 08:47 PM
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Will we all be using the same upgraded prop in this or will the hotter motor use a different one? Also, im wondering if now the larger 240 hyperion might be the better choice for a little more time and performance.....
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hidaven View Post
Will we all be using the same upgraded prop in this or will the hotter motor use a different one? Also, im wondering if now the larger 240 hyperion might be the better choice for a little more time and performance.....

Dave,

Since they're using the Sbach motor in the new Beast, the best prop may turn out to be the 5030 or the 5043 - depending upon your elevation & flying style. That's how it seems to work out with the Sbach.

Regarding the packs - I'm sure that a light-weight, homebrew Hyp 180 2s pack will still be the sweet-spot for thrust-to-weight, but a homebrew 240 will be the ticket for endurance, at the expense of a bit of vertical performance.

Joel
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 09:57 PM
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Joel, whats the difference in the prop size/ pitch of these 2 upgraded blades? I'll start with 2 hyperion 180's. it also looks like theres a new nosecone on the new beast : )
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Firehawk,

I'm taking about the Gee Bee & Beast bricks. You would need to adjust the mix & gain settings to fit your application - just like you do with a heli's tail gyro or flybarless controller. For instance, the Beast 3D & Gee Bee use different programming, and the bricks are not interchangeable because of this fact. Hopefully, they will release a programmable version in the future.

This system is no different than a flybarless controller on a heli - and they must be reprogrammed when they're moved from one brand/model/size of heli to another.

The Beast doesn't fly anything like the Sbach or XP. The Sbach & XP share some traits, but the Beast is at the opposite end of the the scale. Completely different moments, completely different natural resonances, completely different near-stall behavior, completely different post-stall behavior. All of these things must be accounted for in the programming before a stability-augmentation system will work properly. What would be the point of using the system if it didn't work perfectly?

Joel
They've been wrong before, but it appears that Horizon and e-flight list the same part number for the brick for the gee bee and the Beast EFLU 4864.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 11:20 PM
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3D Beast! Exactly what I was begging for!
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hidaven View Post
Joel, whats the difference in the prop size/ pitch of these 2 upgraded blades? I'll start with 2 hyperion 180's. it also looks like theres a new nosecone on the new beast : )
Dave,

GWS prop part numbers denote the diameter & pitch in inches. The 5030 is 5" x 3", and the 5043 is 5" x 4.3". The stock prop is 5" x 2.75". However, the GWS props have a different blade profile than the Eflite prop.

Joel
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bobly View Post
They've been wrong before, but it appears that Horizon and e-flight list the same part number for the brick for the gee bee and the Beast EFLU 4864.
The designers of the planes said that the programming is specific to each airframe - which makes perfect sense. I'm going with them on this. Besides, it is the only way a rate-gyro-based stability-augmentation system can work properly. I will reiterate: The AS3X is no different from a flybarless controller, and we know that flybarless controllers have to be set up for each type of heli. Why would anyone think that there would magically be a one-size-fits-all setting for planes? That would be the same as expecting that you could take the brick out of the mCP X, put it in a Heli-Max Novus CP, and the heli would fly. Of course, that would be a foolish thing to expect. There is a reason why all third-party flybarless controllers are field-programmable. They have to be.

I just don't understand why some people have such a difficult time grasping the fact that the AS3X is no different from a flybarless controller, and that setting it up is also no different. The system has to be tuned for the airframe - as is true with full-scale systems. There is no magic here.

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Oct 21, 2011 at 11:58 PM.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 06:49 AM
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I agree 100% that it seems that it would be a different programming for each plane, but was surprised when I looked up part numbers and found them the same. Only the taxi has a different part number for the brick. It does make sense though that it could be the same if it is only reacting to wind forces and simply moving the appropriate control surfaces enough to bring it back to straight as the gyro sees it.
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