|Oct 20, 2011, 09:51 PM|
Joined Oct 2009
AS3X airplanes FAQ (Gee Bee, Beast 3D, Taxi, Mig 15, ASK-21 glider, Spitfire and Cub)
This is a FAQ about the new ultra-micro airplanes with AS3X technology receivers. For now, those are the GeeBee, Beast 3D, Hyper Taxi, Mig 15, ASK-21 glider, Spitfire, Carbon Cub and Sbach 342
Keep in mind some of that stuff is old. This FAQ was compiled on the go, and started almost a year ago. Videos/pictures, and some other stuff are from the release date.... But most of the data is still valid and worth reading.
The first 3 airplanes were announced on Oct 20, 2011. Most of the answers from this FAQ came straight from the HH guys! They have to do their jobs first, then, try to answers thousand questions in multiple forums so errors are still possible. I'm not perfect either, so let me know if I made any mistakes or forgot something important (just post it in this thread, and I'll add it to this post!). In red are "usually" the latest modifications I made in this FAQ:
Main differences between receivers in those airplanes:
Beast 3D, Gee Bee and Carbon Cub share the same 2S receiver with a brushless ESC!!! That show how good the AS3X system is.
Mig 15 has a programmable receiver with brushless ESC (you use a USB device to change settings)
Spitfire has a 1S receiver with brushed ESC, that is mounted vertically (because of limited space inside the fuselage).
ASK-21 has a 1S receiver with brushed ESC (even if there's no motor) mounted horizontally.
Sbach 342 has the Mig 15 AS6410NBL DSMX (no servos onboard)
- Beast, Gee Bee, Hyper Taxi, Cub Mig and Sbach are 2S, while Spitfire and Glider are 1S. (Some aventurous members here have used the 2S receivers with 3S batteries... Seem to work so far, but you're on your own. One receiver blown report so far, so again, it's risky!)
- Can the assitance be turned off?: NO (this question has been asked 10 times already!)
- Is CG critical?: "CG less critical as apposed to more critical. You can move it back for more agility, with less impact on stability." -David
- Is there accelerometers?: "No accelerometers... and it is not a training or recovery system..." -David
-Can I change the gyro settings so I can use the boards in other airplanes?: Not on the GeeBee, Beast or Hyper Taxi. The AS3X receiver in the Mig 15 is programmable. Unknow yet if they are in the Glider, Cub or Spitfire.
- How do you program the new Rx?: Programming will be through the XPort. - Mike
- The interface cable, which is USB, will be sold seperately. That way you only have to buy one for you many receivers. -Mike
- The Open stock RX unit will only support standard wing/tail configs. It wont support a delta (i.e. Stryker) configuration. -Mike
- The downloads I mentioned will be various model set-ups. For example, the settings for the Beast 3D, Mig 15, Gee Bee, ?, ? , ? AND generic set-ups for different model types...3D, slower type, warbird etc. More than enough different set-ups to cover just about any airplane. And, with any of these set-ups, the flexability will be there to set the direction of each sensor. - Mike (I guess Mike likely had the newer airplanes in mind when he put down those ???... You bad guy! )
- The receiver is intended to be used with our NEW SA2030 linear servos.Note, these are different the the older AS2000 and AS2000L. Better, more precise. Also more robust. We do NOT recommend using the older servos with AS3X. The system is quite active, and the older servos will likely fail in a small number of flights. Trust me on this....they will.....I've done a LOT of flying and testing AS3X from its inception till now. - Mike
-Reading the initialization procedure, it appears that the AS3X requires the plane to be sitting on the gear. Can those who hand-launch & fly without the gear simply set the plane on its belly, instead? : That shouldn't be a problem. -Dave
-how broad a range of turbulence & wind can the system handle?: That's still very much a subjective thing to assess. I'm afraid as soon as I try to quantify it, someone's going to have a bad experience and blame me: "But YOU SAID it would fly in XX mph!!!" For me, it can be flown in 10-15mph, even with some gusts. Come to think about it, I don't think I've flown it in anything under 8mph yet! And these were the conditions I was referencing in the video, where I did all that extended knife-edge stuff. -Dave
-How broad a range of flight conditions can the system handle?: We've been focused so much on getting the first 3 airplanes tuned and shippable that we haven't tried to push the boundaries of AS3X yet. Who knows where it will lead. -Dave
- There was some confusion about using the board in different airframe, so here's the final answer: We had an internal left hand / right hand disconnect problem here. Turns out that the Beast 3D and the Gee Bee, coincidentally, use the same settings. Should give all you scratch builders and modders a little hope. -Dave
-What does AS3X means?: Was originally called: Auto Stabilization 3 aXis system but now, it seem the official description is: Artificial Stabilization in 3 aXis
- The Beast 3D, and Gee Bee use a AS3X board with servos similar (but better and faster RG) to the LBL board used in the previous Beast. - Seth
- The Hyper Taxi uses a similar receiver to the SBach (NBL), with AS3X, as well as some special programming to allow the control surfaces to operate on a simple 4 channel radio, like the DX4e. -Seth
- Gyros are not active when you first plug the battery in. You have to cycle the throttle once and then they are alive - Kevin
- The reason we won't allow the user to turn it off, is because they don't fly well with it off. The CG's, throws, and various other factors on specific planes are chosen to work with the system on. They fly poorly with the system off. -David
- Of course, you can overlay your own preferences (like rates and expo) in your transmitter to customise the feel. When you see the instructions, you will see that we discourage much trim, as this will start having negative effects, so it is best to mechanicly trim out any significant trim, so the 'electronic' trim is near center. -David
- Using the AS3X Beast receiver in a different airframe video proof:
DangerDave using the AS3X in the Sbach 342:
(Now, there's a AS3X commercial version of the Sbach 342...)
Derk Van der Vech using the AS3X in a special airframe design. First part of the video is Beast 3D, so watch to the end. Amazing skills!!!
CloudFlying has succesfully used the Beast AS3X receiver in the HK Durafly Micro Slick 360. No video, but some pictures here:
- New servos on Beast: SPMSA2030L -Dave
- When using the AS3X receivers: "If using this receiver to replace an AR6400LBL board, you will need to ensure that you are using 2.3-gram Performance Linear Long Throw Servos (SPMSA2030L) with this receiver."
- What's the big deal with the new OFFSET servo that just showed up in all the new airplanes??? Can you tell us more about why you're using them now? : The offset servo is basically the same servo as the Beast, GeeBee and Hyper Taxi, but reprogrammed to have an offset center. This allows you to get 75% travel in one direction, 25% in the other. We use this on the ailerons for the Carbon Cub, ASK-21 and Mig-15, because it gives us the differential needed to avoid dragging the tail through turns. It is extremely important on an airplane like the ASK-21 because of the high aspect ratio of the wing. -Seth
SPMSA2030L - Speed 0.10 sec/Torque 3.5oz/Wght 2.3 grams (That's the one recommended for the A3SX board)
SPMSA2030LO - Speed 0.10 sec/Torque 3.5oz/Wght 2.3 grams Offset Servo (for the A3SX board, on Mig, Spit and Glider)
SPMAS2000L - Speed 0.14 sec/Torque 2.8oz/Wght 1.9 grams (Old servo, NOT RECOMMENDED WITH AS3X)
SPMAS2000LBL - Speed 0.14 sec/Torque 2.8oz/Wght 1.9 grams (Old servo, NOT RECOMMENDED WITH AS3X)
General info for all airplanes:
- "flight time is slightly reduced" -Dave
Beast 3D: (EFLU4850) $139.99 Come in a Basic version only (no battery or charger) Out already.
HH webpage: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLU4850
Why the bigger battery (180mah instead of orignal Beast with 120mah)?: "bigger (hungrier...) motor and added components inside due tend to lead to a bigger battery" -Dribbe
"A higher Kv higher amp motor needs more juice (battery).... period." -Dribbe
Differences with the original UMX Beast?: "The UMX Beast 3D is the same airframe as the first one.
New silver color in the scheme and new logos
New AS3X system built into the board.
Larger motor 2500kv instead of 2300kv
Battery tray set up for the 2S 180 pack
UMX Beast 3D program was started 4 or 5 months before Bryan's crash. The new color scheme and logos were decided on at that time.
The planned release for the Beast 3D has been today for a long, long time." -Kevin
About hovering the Beast
I will say something here to maybe give some insight from an "experienced" pilots perspective. I flew quite a bit in the video (along with QQ). AS3X does not make hovering/all 3D manuevers easy, or do-able by the average pilot. The Beast 3D is still very difficult to hover (much more so than the UMX Extra 300 in my opinion), but it is actually capable of this now, whereas I, myself couldn't even hover the old Beast. I can now with the new one. However, as I mentioned above, it is still very difficult to do (but pretty easy for experienced 3D pilots), but is capable of doing so now. The reason the last Beast wasn't called 3D, it wasn't capable. This one is capable, but no-one has said that it is "easy" to do. -Seth
Gee Bee: (EFLU4580) $169.99 Only package is BNF (with battery and charger) Due
HH webpage: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLU4580
- I did fly the Gee Bee (couple of revs) with AS3X on a switch. With the system off, it was just very uncomfortable to fly. Skidded back and forth... pitchy... fealt like it wanted to bite you all the time. -David (Again, there's no switch in the production units, this was a prototype)
Hyper Taxi: (EFLU4780) $169.99 Only package is BNF (with battery and charger) Due
HH webpage: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLU4780
Mig 15: (EFLU1680) $169.99 Only package is BNF (with battery and charger) Available late April 2112
HH webpage http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...f-bnf-EFLU1680
- High-output E-flite 28mm Delta-V® 180m EDF system
- AS3X System for ultra-smooth handling and precision (PROGRAMMABLE)
- Four-channel control including scale working rudder and nose wheel
- Fully engineered intake and exhaust ducting for maximum thrust
- High-speed brushless inrunner ducted fan motor, 11750Kv
- Near perfect scale outline, authentic detail, and graphics
- Includes high-power 2S Li-Po battery and fast charger
- Removable landing gear includes simulated gear doors
- Full Range 4+ Channel DSM2™/DSMX Aircraft Transmitter Required
Wingspan: 16.2 in (412mm)
Length: 15.9 in (402mm)
Wing Area: 53.5 sq in (3.45 sq dm)
Flying Weight: 2.75 oz (77.5g)
- Plug in gear with steerable nose gear. -Dave
- This new NBL board will be sold as a Spektrum open stock receiver. There will be downloadable set-ups for various models/types and enough flexability to adjust it to specific servo/linkage settings so the sensors work in the proper direction. i.e. for the scratch builder and guy that wants to experiment with it in different models. -Mike
- The MiG 15 uses the same battery as the Gee Bee and UM Stryker. The 2S 200 25c. This battery works very well and you can expect 3.5 minutes + on the flight times. I can easily get more it just depends on how you use the throttle stick. -Dave
- The take off roll is very similar to our other micros. It does not struggle to get off the ground. Landings are very similar with its great slow speed ability. -Dave
Spitfire Mk IX: (PKZU2180) $99.99 Only package is BNF (with battery and charger) Available late may 2012
HH webpage http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...f-bnf-PKZU2180
Wingspan: 15.9 in (403mm)
Overall Length: 13.5 in (343mm)
Flying Weight: 1.65 oz (46.8 g)
Prop Size: 100 x 100mm 4-blade
- Is the receiver programmable like the Mig? : No, The ASK and Spitfire use a similar board to the AR6400L. The Spitfire's board is mounted vertically (due to spacing in the fuselage), and the ASK's board is mounted horizontally. -Seth PLEASE READ RUMOR MILL SECTION: It does seem like the receiver could be programmable after all, based on a compatibility chart available from Spektrum and HH.
- Is it a different motor than the other UMs? Same motor as the UM Corsair and P-51. Comes with a 25C 150mAh battery (same battery as mSRX - http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ry-EFLB1501S25) -Seth
Carbon Cub: (EFLU1180) $169.99 Only package is BNF (with battery and charger) Available early april 2012
HH webpage http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...f-bnf-EFLU1180
Includes a top-mounted, ultra micro-size sailplane tow hook
Perfect for aerotowing! The tow hook equipped UMX Carbon Cub SS makes an ideal tug for the UMX ASK-21 (EFLU1280)
Converts to a floatplane quickly with optional E-flite float set (EFLUA1190)
Full five-channel control with flaps to enjoy slower flight and shorter takeoffs and landings
Navigation wing lights and landing light installed
High-output 180BL, 2500Kv brushless outrunner motor
E-flite 180mAh 2S Li-Po battery and balance charger
Wingspan: 24.0 in (610mm)
Overall Length: 15.7 in (398mm)
Flying Weight: 3.17 oz (90 g)
Motor Size: 180-size, 2500Kv brushless outrunner
Wing Area: 83.5 sq. in. (540 sq. cm.)
CG (Center of Gravity): 27mm back from the leading edge of wing
Recommended Motor Battery: 7.4V 2S 180mAh 20C Li-Po (included)
- Where is all the carbon fiber in the Carbon Cub: It's not called "Carbon" because it has more Carbon Fiber than any other ultra-micro airplane, but simply because the "Carbon Cub" is the name of a real airplane! Here's a link for you: http://www.cubcrafters.com/carboncubss.
- Can you program the flaps proportional?: The flaps are driven by a standard linear servo, so yes, they can be proportional. However, it is setup to work off of the gear channel (switch) out of the box so that customers with a DX4e and DX5e can fly this model as well. If you have a programmable radio, you could switch it to multiple positions by mixing, or do whatever you would like with it, as it is just another servo. -Seth
- Is there a servo for releasing the line on the Carbon Cub?: No release servo. The main reason for no release servo in the Cub is due to the cost of the servo, weight added, and the complexity inside the airplane itself. We feel that there will be a few people that will buy and fly the Cub without ever towing the ASK-21, and we don't want them to have to pay for the extra cost of the extra servo they are never going to use. -Seth
- Can I switch the lights on and off from the transmitter? (Are the lights always on?. Is there a switch?) : No, the lights are on when the battery is plugged in, and off when it is unplugged. -Seth
- Is the receiver programmable like the Mig?: Same situation as the GeeBee, this airplane comes/works with the Beast 3D board. -Seth
- Since it's a servo, I guess you can you also program the flaps so they go up instead of down? : It is on a torque rod, so the servo sits at one side of travel when the flaps are up, and the other side of travel when the flaps are down. Theoretically, yes, you could, but the linkages would all need to be readjusted for the flaps as when the servo is centered, the flaps are at half deflection. -Seth
ASK-21 Glider: (EFLU1280) $119.99 Only package is BNF (with battery and charger) Available mid may 2012
HH webpage http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...f-bnf-EFLU1280
Four-channel control including remote tow hook release
Elegant scale appearance with outstanding thermal performance
Smooth-molded construction with carbon fiber reinforcement
Removable one-piece wing with high efficiency airfoil
Hi-Start launch system included
Wingspan: 33.9 in (860mm)
Overall Length: 17.0 in (432mm)
Wing Area: 80.4 sq. in (520 sq. mm.)
Flying Weight: 2.56 oz (72.5 g)
Recommended Receiver Battery: 3.7V 1S 150mAh 25C Li-Po
What is a High-Start?: The hi-start is about 30 feet of rubber and 90 feet of string (approximately), so when its all said and done, you're probably starting out around 100-120 feet. I'm not a good sailplane pilot by any means, but off a hi-start launch, the absolute shortest I've flown it was about 20 seconds, but that was even with a couple of loops thrown in there as well. I've also had some flights where I have launched directly into thermals and flown for about 3-4 minutes off the hi-start. As I mentioned above, I really am not the best at searching for lift, or staying in it for that matter, so I was pretty happy with the result. The cool thing about this airplane is just the pure size of it. Just super cool to fly a sailplane at its size. We have done most of our test-flying here in Illinois (FLAT!), and it is an absolute ball of fun. We are very excited about the 'expansion' of the ultra micro line, if you will, with this cool little airplane. -Seth
- Is the receiver programmable like the Mig? Check the Rumor Mill section...
- The ASK and Spitfire use a similar board to the AR6400L. The Spitfire's board is mounted vertically (due to spacing in the fuselage), and the ASK's board is mounted horizontally. -Seth
- Is there a brushed ESC onboard???? On the picture, there's a small black connector with 3 pins! : As mentioned above, it is essentially the same board as the Spitfire (different sensor settings and orientation). -Seth
- Can you show us the High-Start launch system? : The Hi Start is just a combination of rubber and string (appx. 30 ft of rubber, 90 feet of string). One launch off the hi-start is at 1:02 in the video. -Seth
Sbach 342: (EFLU4950) $139.99 Only package is basic (without battery and charger)
Specifications: Same as old Sbach 342. Different color. Same receiver as the Mig 15. (no servos onboard)
USB Programming interface SPMA3060
- Instruction can be found here:
- Software can be downloaded here (xp,vista,windows7):
- The USB programmer allow for re-orientation of the brick... So you could mount the brick vertically or horizontally, and have the gyro setup done by the programmer. You can also reverse the gyro effect. So basically, brick orientation is not important anymore. (as long as you use those templates to start with...)
- The USB programmer is compatible with more than just the Mig 15 receiver!!! A chart has been posted on multiple official websites and it's showing that the programmer would also work with the Beast/GeeBee/CC receiver, the Spitfire receiver and the ASK-21 receiver.
Horizon Hobby direct link
Spektrum website direct link
Comments taken from the source:
Dave: Dave Eichstedt
David: David Ribbe aka Dribbe
Kevin: Kevin J. Kimball
Seth: Seth Arnold
(A huge thank to you all, from all of us, for reading our thousand posts and answering as many questions as you can, quite often after work hours, you're the greatest!)
Interesting things I noticed while making this FAQ:
- If you have dyslexia, you may get a Beast while ordering a Gee Bee or vice versa (EFLU4850 and EFLU4580)
- Three different release dates (early, mid and late december).
- MEMS Gyroscope: "MicroElectroMechanical" System gyroscope
The RUMOR Mill:
Some tidbits that are not 100% sure yet, but could be quite interesting. Hopefully, one of the HH guys will confirm or deny those facts!
- It seem like the original EFLU4864 (Beast/GeeBee/CC) receiver was DSM2 only, and the latest batch would be DSM2/DSMX. The part number didn't change, only some labels on the receiver itself....
Info here: DSM2 and DSMX labels
Great video covering all three new birds:
Hyper Taxi (fourth video, the secret is out...):
The Beast 3D:
The Gee Bee video:
Mig 15 first video:
Video taken by Kuczy at the JR Indoor 2011
A short Hyper Taxi video from JR indoor 2011:
November 22: Kevin Kimball added a whole bunch of video on youtube. You may want to check them out:
A Beast review from FliteTest. Pretty good demo...
The new Sbach 342 with AS3X:
A few non-official pictures
Notice the tape on the propeller! Seem like the original props are no longer well balanced?
November 21: Chuck gave us a few more pictures of the Beast here:
Thanks all for the great comments about this FAQ, just doing my best to help the community!
|Oct 20, 2011, 09:57 PM|
Joined Jan 2005
dribbe is David Ribbe
(Bigger motor is higher output as delivered... higher kv, more power... not physically bigger. should have said hungrier...)
|Oct 20, 2011, 09:58 PM|
Joined Aug 2007
Dribbe = David Ribbe, not David Payne (he's DPAYNE)
Regarding the servo part number, I'm not up to speed on all the possible versions out there. I grabbed SPMSA2030L from the Beast 3D manual, but there may be others as well. Check the replacement part lists from the manuals in the AS3X-equipped airplanes for more info.
Q: Can I change the gyro settings so I can use the boards in other airplanes?
A: No, the boards are not programmable in the field. Each board has programming specific to its intended airframe.
|Oct 20, 2011, 10:53 PM|
So does the AS3X system remove all torque, tip stalls, and bad habits? Does that mean I can practice hovering in my living room with the new beast?
Now that would be fun.
|Oct 20, 2011, 11:38 PM|
Joined Jan 2005
One of the cool parts about the Beast is that you can compare it to the non-AS3X one! Each with it's own advantages.... as I recall, the original is lighter without the sensors and uprated servos...
Guess which one is easier to fly slow? In a small space? Torque roll? Slow roll? Knife edge?
|Oct 20, 2011, 11:39 PM|
The new GeeBee looks absolutely awesome. With the new board, is it less critical to get a programmable tx like a DX6i to allow setting expo and mixing? Would a DX5e be sufficient?
How about a Hughes H-1 Racer next?
|Oct 21, 2011, 12:21 AM|
Questions about the AS3X
Dave & David,
Looks like you guys hit another one out of the park!
Questions about the AS3X:
1) Many of us fly in the winter. What is the operational temperature range of the AS3X? Also, how does it fare if one initializes indoors, and then takes the aircraft outdoors when it's, say, +10 F?
2) Reading the initialization procedure, it appears that the AS3X requires the plane to be sitting on the gear. Can those who hand-launch & fly without the gear simply set the plane on its belly, instead? (Not a problem for me, as I am an ROG addict - but figured I'd ask.)
3) Last November, I maidened my Beast in a 10-17 MPH wind. I often fly it in winds up to 10-12 MPH. For those of us who already fly our V1 Beasts in 10+ MPH winds, what can we expect with the 3D? Or, to put it another way - how broad a range of turbulence & wind can the system handle?
4) How broad a range of flight conditions can the system handle? For instance - could you guys program it to stabilize a negatively-stable airframe, such as a modern fighter? (Just wondering if we'll ever see something like an exact-scale micro F-22 or F-35. )
|Oct 21, 2011, 10:38 AM|
|Oct 21, 2011, 01:44 PM|
Joined Oct 2009
Part listing for the Beast and the Gee Bee show the same AS3X receiver!!! Could those two airplanes share the same board, or is it a mistake in the HH website?
P.S.: Right now, list price is $79 but sale price is $89... Ooooops!
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