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Old Oct 20, 2011, 08:08 PM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
190 Posts
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Originally Posted by hydro_pyro View Post
I was referring to the type of drift that occurs several minutes into the flight-- The flight begins with a perfectly level hover with no drift, then progressively gets worse toward the end of the flight
I know exactly what you're saying. The thing is regardless of servo-rod/subtrim setting and CG setup, the mCPx will hover perfectly level when you first hook up the battery thanks to AS3X. The drift towards end of charge occurs if you don't have those settings/setups correctly in the first place.
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 08:09 PM
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Canada, ON, Toronto
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Originally Posted by Firehawk989 View Post
By the time you can actually buy it in stores it will have been "a few months."
Yes, I just found that out. I misunderstood the OP.

Nomad
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tres Wright View Post
I flew the snot out of my mSR outdoors for months in all kinds of wind before getting the mCP-X. I too thought there was something wrong with the heli at first (seemed quirky outdoors), but I soon learned the problem wasn't the heli, it was my lack of heli flying skills! Outdoor fast forward flight takes a completely different skillset than hovering and puttering around indoors. Once I understood that you cannot steer the mSR by tail alone in forward flight but must instead use coordinated turns (mixing tail inputs with cyclic) life got a lot easier from there and I started to appreciate what a nice little flyer it is. The dive-of-death was always an issue though, I got to where I could compensate for it but it was a juggling act. Once you master the mSR in all orientations and FFF, transitioning to the mCP-X is a breeze.
I understood that from the simulator, and from all of my real-world flying. The wind tends to turn it downwind, and away it goes. The dive of death has caused me my first crash-related damage. When you're flying at eye-level, it happens pretty fast. I've only had time to close the throttle at the last moment to minimize the damage. I attribute the dive of death to retreating blade stall. I'll probably get to compensate for it too, as long as I'm willing to accept the crash-damage cost in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Tres Wright View Post
It is HIGHLY unlikely that their phone support people know anything about the "secret" projects until they are already out. HH keeps a tight lid on product announcements, I've never heard a single product leaked before the official announcement.
Perfectly understood. I just wonder, how many Walkera FBLs have been sold, and how many of those purchasers will then upgrade to the Genius, now that they've had a taste of those programmable radios. Keeping a 'tight lid' on product announcements seems like a good idea, when you're trying to get the jump on the competition. Once they've gotten the jump on you, it's time to let the cat out of the bag, to keep your customers from straying. "On the Horizon, from Horizon" would make a great addition to their webpage.

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Originally Posted by Tres Wright View Post
And as Pimpbaa said, if you're struggling with the mSR it's doubtful you'll like the mSR-X any better. Dave at HH said the mSR-X is more of an intermediate flyer, it's between the mSR and the mCP-X. They did not discontinue the mSR (at least, not yet), so this isn't a replacement, it's a different model.
I'm not struggling with the machine. I just don't like the way it flies. I was warned about this, but my options are limited.

Regards,

Nomad
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Nomad,

We keep that information quiet untill we are ready to announce not even the reps know untill we tell them.
Keeping a 'tight lid' on product announcements seems like a good idea, when you're trying to get the jump on the competition. Once they've gotten the jump on you, it's time to let the cat out of the bag, to keep your loyal customers loyal. "On the Horizon, from Horizon" might be a good addition to your web page. Informed customers can make an informed choice. Annoyed customers, sometimes make other choices.

Nomad
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 08:42 PM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
Keeping a 'tight lid' on product announcements seems like a good idea, when you're trying to get the jump on the competition. Once they've gotten the jump on you, it's time to let the cat out of the bag, to keep your loyal customers loyal. "On the Horizon, from Horizon" might be a good addition to your web page. Informed customers can make an informed choice. Annoyed customers, sometimes make other choices.

Nomad
I've been trying to keep my mouth shut but man... you're just being absurd here. Think about what you're actually saying!!
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
I've been trying to keep my mouth shut but man... you're just being absurd here. Think about what you're actually saying!!
Why he is right - keeping hush hush when you are trying to get a jump on the opposition is fair practice - but if you are rehashing an old concept that has already been done then you are getting the jump on no one.

Regards David
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 09:13 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Originally Posted by Hellraser View Post
Why he is right - keeping hush hush when you are trying to get a jump on the opposition is fair practice - but if you are rehashing an old concept that has already been done then you are getting the jump on no one.

Regards David
You're arguing about marketing approaches not common sense. If they can decide how best to market their products and the move forward accordingly.

They've decided to keep their mouths shut about new product releases (regardless of whether you perceive them as rehashing an old one or not) so being upset that a customer service rep didn't mention that something new was in the works is just a waste of time.

Not to mention that their approach is unheard of. Don't the majority of consumer product companies do this?
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 09:13 PM
Horizon Hobby
Champaign, il
Joined Oct 2003
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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
Keeping a 'tight lid' on product announcements seems like a good idea, when you're trying to get the jump on the competition. Once they've gotten the jump on you, it's time to let the cat out of the bag, to keep your loyal customers loyal. "On the Horizon, from Horizon" might be a good addition to your web page. Informed customers can make an informed choice. Annoyed customers, sometimes make other choices.

Nomad
We keep our customers informed, but we also want to bring you the highest quality product possible so if that means we don't introduce a product because it is not up to our standards then thats what happens. We want all of you to have fun and injoy our products, I am a modeler also so if i'm having fun with our product your going to have fun, and that is what I want to see.
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 09:33 PM
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It has become a moot point. I was a little put out at first, due to the timing of the announcement, but the matter has been satisfactorily resolved.

All-in-all, the support I have received from Horizon Hobby has far exceeded any expectations.

Horizon Hobby is a first-class operation.

Nomad
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
You're arguing about marketing approaches not common sense. If they can decide how best to market their products and the move forward accordingly.

They've decided to keep their mouths shut about new product releases (regardless of whether you perceive them as rehashing an old one or not) so being upset that a customer service rep didn't mention that something new was in the works is just a waste of time.

Not to mention that their approach is unheard of. Don't the majority of consumer product companies do this?
I was commenting on you accusing the lad of being absurd when he pointed out that under the circumstances there is no real need for Hush hush approach - There is not any need whats more as the threads of the last week have shown there is a big interest in an updated MSR and a 120 so letting the customers in on the upcoming release is better practice than hush hush this time.

Regards David
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 12:34 AM
Live to ride... and fly!
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Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I'm not struggling with the machine. I just don't like the way it flies. I was warned about this, but my options are limited.
I've read some of your posts, and clearly you're struggling. This one for example:

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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I have to chime in here. I bought my mSR two weeks ago yesterday, because EVERYBODY (except Bob), told me it was the right machine for me. A CP would be just too much to handle. I ought to have listened to Bob.

Since I have not yet flown a CP, I have no idea what I am in for, if and when I do. I only have people telling me how difficult it is. The only frame of reference that I have is the mSR, and what it flies like.

My opinion: the mSR is a POS. I am not enjoying my new 'hobby' one bit. I was warned about the pendulum effect, and the TBE, but had no idea how bad it really is. I can hover it in my 10x13 room from which I have removed all obstacles. I can slow fly it around, using that room and the adjacent living room, but if I'm not really careful, I'll hit a wall as the machine skids around a turn.

I took it to the park today, in winds that were supposed to be calm, but in point of fact were a whopping 3.7 mph. Within three minutes, I had crashed three times, (the forewarned 'dive of death', which truly WAS a 'dive of death', since the machine is now broken). This POS suffers from retreating-blade stall, and heads for the ground during FFF. It cannot cope with 3.7 mph breeze, at least not in my ham-fisted hands. (I just got off the phone with HH, and was told by them that this heli is not capable of flying in 3.7 mph winds.)

I was aware of this with the coaxials, but am not impressed that this machine has the performance (or lack thereof) that it has. The mCP X would have been a handful, but the HH tech said that I would have gotten used to it. At least, as Bob says, it does what you tell it to, not what some lame flybar tells it to. That was my experience on the Real Flight sim. I had less trouble with the CP than the mSR on that sim.

If I get a chance to fly an mCP X, I'll buy one, if I like it. If not...

Nomad
So you're flying it into walls indoors when you try to turn and you can't fly it outside in less than a 4 mph breeze without crashing it over and over again. 4 mph is nothing at all for the mSR, I routinely flew mine in winds over 10 mph with gusts. Your description sounds like inexperience, and like many have done before you (including me) it's a lot easier to blame the heli than to consider it may be a skillset issue. There's no place for a bruised ego in flying helis, you need to set that aside and just keep trying and trying until you get the hang of it. Sims help, but don't expect to invest some time in sims and immediately take to the skies like an old pro afterwards. You seem to think a CP is the answer to your problems and maybe it is, but if you're consistently damaging the mSR in crashes you will probably do worse to a CP. Not sure where you're flying, but I always flew my mSR over a long-cut lawn and never broke a thing on it. Get in the habit of chopping the throttle before it hits and you should hardly ever break anything (unless you're flying over pavement).
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 12:38 AM
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Forney, TX
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Originally Posted by Hellraser View Post
I was commenting on you accusing the lad of being absurd when he pointed out that under the circumstances there is no real need for Hush hush approach - There is not any need whats more as the threads of the last week have shown there is a big interest in an updated MSR and a 120 so letting the customers in on the upcoming release is better practice than hush hush this time.

Regards David
I don't think they're trying to be "hush hush", I think they've changed tactics. Previously they used to announce new projects well in advance of the release date, and they missed nearly every announced release date as a result (it's hard to control things when they're 3 to 6 months out). It seems that now they're just trying to hold off on the announcements until they're closer to the release date. Fine by me, I'd rather they do it that way so we don't have to wait so darned long. Heck, it would be fine with me if they didn't announce the new products until they're available in stores.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tres Wright View Post
I don't think they're trying to be "hush hush", I think they've changed tactics. Previously they used to announce new projects well in advance of the release date, and they missed nearly every announced release date as a result (it's hard to control things when they're 3 to 6 months out). It seems that now they're just trying to hold off on the announcements until they're closer to the release date. Fine by me, I'd rather they do it that way so we don't have to wait so darned long. Heck, it would be fine with me if they didn't announce the new products until they're available in stores.
+1 Keeping the release date (or at least reasonably close to it) is more important to the credibility of a company than early announcement. I am sure they are already working on a 120 sized CP, but until there is a firm release date, its just vaporware. If you are like many of us, you will buy another one when it comes out anyway.

PS, don't buy that new iPhone 4S, they are already working on the 5! And don't ever buy a computer, it is obsolete before you can actually get it. I would be surprised if the next generation of chips is not already in production before the previous version is even released.

-Chocula
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tres Wright View Post
I routinely flew mine in winds over 10 mph with gusts.
Errrr, I call bull...

How did you determine wind speed exactly? I've long since moved on, but there is no way you were "flying" an mSR in 10mph gusty winds. I'm by no means an excellent pilot, but I can fly my heli's reasonably well - fast forward, backward, inverted, flips, loops, rolls, rainbows, messy tic tocs (working on it!!)! etc etc and I had an old mSR for tooling around the apartment before the mCP X came out.

I tried it outside a few times and if you were really flying in 10mph winds plus gusts you'd never have seen your heli again. Flying an mSR in even light gusty winds of a few mph is also a relative term, its not so much flying as constantly fighting the wind.

I get what you are trying to say in your post, but exaggerating helps no one.

As for this, I think it's great. If it had been around when I was starting I would have loved it - it'll be a much better trainer for CP now without the self correcting tendency and yet still with the simplicity and low headspeeds of FP to reduce crash damage (and damage to TVs, furniture, significant other etc etc)
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 05:27 AM
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Joined Oct 2008
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If the new msr has solved all the problems from the old msr then it will be an over all good heli , ~Could even be one of the best helis to learn on .
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