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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:48 AM
Bruno, GOOD DOG
A Rdnek's Avatar
United States, IA, Grinnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powdermnky007 View Post
I started out with the MSRX in Heli 1 servo mode on my DX7 and couldn't control it. I spent a full week tweaking the mixes and got right turns ok, but couldn't mix left turns where i could keep it from crashing. I started out with a syma s107 then moved to a solo pro for a year, just got the MSRX & DX7 for christmas. I can fly the solo pro like a beast =) Now this is my 1st experience with a programmable controller, i spent about 20 hours reading the manual, watching youtube videos, and reading forum posts about mixing etc and understand it all. Had throttle curves and different dual rates and expos setup on the norm\st1\st2 switch. Like I said I spent a week working on the mixes and couldn't make it behave. When i say behave I don't mean do piros without moving around. I expect to use the cyclics to keep it under control. I read the manual for the MSRX and it said use ACRO mode. So I gave it a shot and instantly I could fly it with acceptable control. I still have to use the cyclics to turn it around, but hey! I can turn it around without crashing.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you. For an expert flyer, who has been using programmable radios for years, you can probably get better performance and more adjustability by using the Heli mode. But for an intermediate pilot like me, ACRO got me enjoying my heli. I was regretting the purchase before that. Now its very challenging, but fun!

Also thanks for the nod about keeping the heli still while gyros initalize. Very important! I wish they would elaborate in the manual. It's like they can't spare one more sheet of paper? Seriously Blade we aren't idiots, tell us how these things work instead of making us figure it out for our self. We need an beginner manual and a service manual with the 'secrets'.
First, the DX7 is probably the hardest, modern, radio there is to program. The DX7s, on the other hand, is a piece of cake to program.
As to the mSRX, It sounds to me like you need to adjust the servo pushrod lengths.
There was long detailed discussions about this, in this thread about a year ago. Some said all this was non scene and others of us did the adjustments and it made our mSRXs fly great.
Many old timers and a lot of excellent help, left this thread over this issue.
Try a search for push rod adjustments. Good Luck.
Ron
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:52 AM
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powdermnky007's Avatar
United States, LA, Lake Charles
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by RoboHeli View Post
I also HIGHLY recommend the msrx book by John Salt at rchelicopterfun.com I bought it and found it to be extremely useful.

FWIW, I do not use any mixes with my MSRX. No expo and 100% dual rates (75% indoors...)
Good to know, I will probably buy the book. I'm wishing I would have bought it before I bought the heli. Probably would have saved me hours. My hats off to you if you can fly it with no mixes. I'm fairly new to this hobby and obviously have a long way to go! Thanks for the info everyone.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:04 AM
Crash Test Dummy
powdermnky007's Avatar
United States, LA, Lake Charles
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by A Rdnek View Post
First, the DX7 is probably the hardest, modern, radio there is to program. The DX7s, on the other hand, is a piece of cake to program.
As to the mSRX, It sounds to me like you need to adjust the servo pushrod lengths.
There was long detailed discussions about this, in this thread about a year ago. Some said all this was non scene and others of us did the adjustments and it made our mSRXs fly great.
Many old timers and a lot of excellent help, left this thread over this issue.
Try a search for push rod adjustments. Good Luck.
Ron
.
Thanks Ron, I will look that up!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:12 AM
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Oxford, Indiana
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Originally Posted by powdermnky007 View Post
Thanks Ron, I will look that up!
I have it subscribed - this is where I am lost, on the AS3X...

mSRx Manual Servo Link Adjustment Methods, MMM vs JBB

r
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:17 AM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Well you've come to the right place, rcav8or! We'll be happy to give what advice we can to you. I have done the JBB/MMM with both my helis and when starting out it does help turning when you are flying slowly indoors. Eventually you learn to mix your cyclic inputs as you turn and it doesn't become that necessary anymore.

FWIW, I started with a level swash and then gave myself two turns clockwise on elevator (shortening it) and two turns counterclockwise on aileron (lengthening it). I use the rakonheli swash,btw so your mileage may vary. good luck!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:22 AM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Originally Posted by rcav8or View Post
I have it subscribed - this is where I am lost, on the AS3X...

mSRx Manual Servo Link Adjustment Methods, MMM vs JBB

r
So what have you done yet? Have you tried it yet? Which part are you stuck on?
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RoboHeli View Post
So what have you done yet? Have you tried it yet? Which part are you stuck on?
I am having trouble understanding the three clicks of rudder, to turn "heading hold" off...

Quote:
1. 3 clicks of rudder trim to disable "Heading Hold"
2. Get into hover and go hands off, note which way it drifts
3. Land, adjust the offending servo link, rinse and repeat.
Is that through the radio, or the AS3X? Because later, it says:

Quote:
2. Apply 3 clicks of rudder trim to disable "Heading Hold" The heli may rotate a bit.
3. Ignore the small rotation and note which way it drifts
4. Heli will now be unstable. Applying rudder will re-enable the AS3X system and allow you to land.
5. Land, adjust the offending servo link and repeat by hovering and readjusting TRANSMITTER trims.
I'm pretty sure I will be able to fly somewhat decent, because I was flying and hovering, albeit a little shaky, with high rates, on the transmitter provided in the RTF kit. Right now I can only dream of what will be possible, with a programmable setup, decent expo, etc, etc!!

I realize I am seriously lacking in the knowledge of the nomenclature of the Helicopter, and even how anything other than basically how it works. I'm not afraid of complicated things, just haven't been exposed, and I tend to jump in three feet first, THEN look around...and the helicopter is NOT conducive to that...

R
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:52 AM
Safety : practice & promote!
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The AS3X is an integral part of the helicopter receiver. It has no adjustments or any parameters to tune. You do everything through your transmitter when following the JBB instructions.


The summary is that the heli seems to have two modes. The first is head holding mode. This appears to be enabled when you have zero rudder input. The cool thing about this mode is that in the wind the heli will fight to keep its heading unchanged. It's fun to watch. In this mode the heli is doing more stabilization work for you.

Now when you touch the rudder stick (or give it several clicks of rudder trim YMMV) then the helli behaves like it is in rate mode which I think causes the tail to follow the nose when going forward. In this mode you have much more responsibility to fly the helicopter with your right stick. The heli will want to scoot away in different directions of you do not actively compensate. You cannot just use rudder to piro like a coaxial. It is harder to fly but ultimately you have more control.

Here is some good generic gyro information by John Salt:

http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/heading-hold-gyro.html


Finally, do not give this heli any elev or aile trim. The AS3X flybarless controller has no need for it.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 01:19 PM
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United States, LA, Lake Charles
Joined Dec 2011
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roboheli, do you recommend adjusting the servo pushrod length? I'm just learning this heli so is it worth it? Will it make a difference? Seems like the AS3X will just 'fix' it.

I noticed one of my servos worm gears was 'loose'. I took up the slack by tightening one of brass nuts on the top. I noticed when i would apply servo the worm gear touching the servo motor drive gear would move up and down a lot. I adjusted its slack to match the amount of play in the other servo, which was very little.

When giving a little left, a little right to trying to keep the heli straight the servo had to do a few full rotations in either direction just to take the slack out and then move the control surface. So when going back and forth to hover it was constantly taking slack out. It's hard to explain. It's like driving an old car or cheap lawn mower with lots of play in the steering wheel. You have to constantly move the wheel a lot back and forth just to keep the vehicle moving straight. I hope I explained that well. Hopefully it's ok to take the slack out and I didn't mess anything up. But it seems to respond quicker now and it seems to fly slightly better now.

That servo had been doing so much moving that now the track is dirty underneath and i have to take the servo off to clean it.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 01:36 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Well for me (and a lot of folks on this forum) when I did a left rudder operation from a hover the heli would want to shoot backward and to the left. That is why I changed my link lengths from "stock" which for me was a level swashplate on initialization.

Note: this will NOT make the heli easier to fly in general. It will just help when turning left from a hover and doing slow movements indoors.

This bird loves speed and it really wants to be flown fast outdoors. That is where it shines and the effect of the jbb won't even be felt...

So my advice is to try it if you want but just be careful not to break the blade grip balls or the pushrod. I did both when messing with it and it's irritating... I have rakonheli bladegrips on my helis so that there are metal balls instead of plastic!


Now as for your servos you definitely want as little slack in there as possible. Slack is very bad for this heli. Also clean servos are a must!!!

Good luck!
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:21 AM
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United States, LA, Lake Charles
Joined Dec 2011
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Cleaned my servos last night & did the JBB setup method. Seems a lot happier now
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Wow! Got mine today - just too much heli for me! I can fly Solo Pros like a pro; can stunt any of my 4 quads about; but I'm close to giving up on this as 'uncontrolable'.
Read all the blurb on here about the pushrod length and did it; I've got Mr Salt's book and read it.
Hover is fine, right turns/piro good - but trying left turns/piros brings disaster, and it shoots backwards! It also seems to pendulum about and not react to control, despite (favourite) negative expo on my Dx6i.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:03 AM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
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Just got to take it slow. Get into a hover and do a little bit of left rudder. When you see the heli start to tilt, then apply the appropriate cyclic command to compensate. It takes some time to get used to. It took me about 2 weeks of frustration but I eventually trained myself and now I can fly this thing great in either direction indoors and out.

My recommendation is to try it and then when you get frustrated, go back to the SP or quad to get back into a receptive frame of mind. It's hard to learn when you're mad (I speak for personal experience on this!)

Best of luck...
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:52 AM
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United States, LA, Lake Charles
Joined Dec 2011
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I feel your pain Eric, same here. Just like anything, it takes practice. Had a few left turn crashes last night myself! Right turn is great. If I give it steady right turn with some cyclic I can 'cyclone' around in a circle. Not so with left turn. It's very frustrating to go from being able to throw the Solo Pro around like a boss, to feeling like you can't fly anymore. But that's just part of advancing. I've only had my mSR X for 1 week now and stepped up from a Solo Pro so were in the same boat. I have to mentally prepare myself before I fly my mSR X.

When I first got mine, I put my DX7 into heli mode and that made it much more difficult to turn. I changed my transmitter to ACRO mode as the manual recommends and that made it a lot easier to fly. Also like was said on page 336 of this post (i think) make sure the heli is completely still while you are plugging the battery in. Once the blue light is solid and the gyros have initialized it will be happy and you can move it around. Those two things made my life a lot easier and this heli much more enjoyable for me. I bought mine used from ebay so I had some additional maintenance to do, so my learning curve was a little steeper as I didn't know how it was supposed to fly because my servos were dirty.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric the Red View Post
Wow! Got mine today - just too much heli for me! I can fly Solo Pros like a pro; can stunt any of my 4 quads about; but I'm close to giving up on this as 'uncontrolable'.
Read all the blurb on here about the pushrod length and did it; I've got Mr Salt's book and read it.
Hover is fine, right turns/piro good - but trying left turns/piros brings disaster, and it shoots backwards! It also seems to pendulum about and not react to control, despite (favourite) negative expo on my Dx6i.
Don't give up - just fly it outside more until you get used to it. I was RIGHT where you are and wouldn't have believed myself if I heard what I'm about to tell you - I can now fly my MSRX in an 8x10 room with obstacles, pirohuette, and land on a 1 foot diameter stool.

most of the time.
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