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Old Sep 23, 2012, 05:00 PM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
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Yeah expo is for sure personal preference (i like negative for rudder outside and more positive for inside) . What I was saying is the higher you go above 30 the more required stick movement which makes for harder to be precise and impossible to not apply larger stick movements to correct flight.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 05:39 PM
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^Exactly. After two days of tinkering I'm at 10-10-0 with 100% throws.


Here's an interesting one for you guys... the wind finally died and I took this thing outside. Now I could have sworn I bought the X and not the MSR, I evenchecked twice to make sure there's not a flybar hiding in there someone, this thing will NOT fly forward for anything. I can lean in full bore into the ground and it will start out great, but after about 20 feet it rockets upward and then backwards, even while I hold in full forward cyclic. I thought this was only an issue with the 45 degree flybar helis? Is this Blade's attempt to make the AS3X imitate the horrible traits of the original msr?

Also, my blade grip link ball snapped off in mid air... wth
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 07:35 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
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Good news and bad news. Good news is the porpoising is due to trim not inherent in the heli. Look up " msrx porpoising" and you'll get 100s of hits if robo heli doesnt beat you to the punch with a faster answer.
Bad news. Either stock up on blade grips or go buy the 18 buch aluminum ones from cnc. They are very worth it!
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 08:56 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Joined Dec 2011
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???

I can fly forward. I can fly forward fast. I get some porpoising when I fly into the wind but that seems expected. You sure you didn't just hit a gust of wind that caused it to pop up? Sorry I don't have a whole lot to say on this one... Mine flies fine forward...

Oh, and get the Rakon Heli CNC grips right away. The red ones look great and you won't worry about breaking a plastic ball in flight. That happened to me ONCE and then converted my entire head to Rakon Heli red anodized aluminum parts. Never looked back...
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 11:38 PM
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+1 on the aluminum. I have a stash of plastic and have only broken one but when the pile I stocked up on is gone I am going aluminum.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:33 AM
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I'll try again today but it was dead calm. It runs just so far and then shoots to the sky. From all my searching it looks like a programming issue with the swash resetting on rudder input. I wish eflite could just release a functioning heli.

In fact, it doesn't even hold attitude in forward flight. If I tip it forward the release the stick , it immediately levels and stops just like it has a 45 degree flybar.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 10:26 AM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Ah...did your "pop" upwards occur when applying rudder after only giving it cyclic? Have you applied the MMM to your heli yet? I've got the RakonHeli CNC swash and shortened my elevator link by 2 full turns and lengthened my aileron like by 2 full turns.

I typically fly with rudder and cyclic inputs all the time. I only go cyclic-only (e.g. head holding mode) when I'm taking off and landing or panicking after avoiding a near-crash indoors.

I fly in a soccer field and even when the wind is blowing, my little birds (yah, I've got 2--fly one while the other cools) just tear up the sky. I've not encountered the porposing effect so much myself. I also haven't seen attitude holding in forward flight so much either. When I center the joystick, it does tend to pull back on the elevator. However, I don't know if that's when I was in head-holding mode (e.g. hovering indoors) or in rate-mode when I'm riding the rudder in outdoor flight. To be honest, I haven't paid too much attention to that. Also, my DX6i is on its way back from HH for a warranty replacement of the radio board (I've been grounded for two weeks...sob) and so I'll be putting these guys through their paces again soon enough and will try to pay attention more to these issues.

To be honest, when my MSRXs are in the open sky, I never experience any issues with piro problems, left turn issues, porposing (well, unless I'm riding into the wind) and so on. These birds were meant for the big open spaces and when they've got some speed going on, they handle just fine for me.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 11:57 AM
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I'm not sure if it did it only on rudder application because I was simply flying normally and not paying attention to odd defects. I read the entire msrx disappointment thread and now have an infinitely better understanding of why the heli does what it does. I will adjust the linkages tonight and retest.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 01:21 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Here's the thread that summarizes the method that seems to work well for people:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577468

Go down to the very bottom of the first posting where he describes the four steps of the "JBB Method"
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 03:41 PM
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Interesting results, not like anyone else in that thread...

If I give it three clicks of rudder to the right to disable, the heli drifts right during hover. No worries, tuned that out with the link and now it hovers stable. Just for the hell of it I tried giving it three clicks to the left to disable - now it drifts left. Three clicks to the right instead, now it drifts right. It drifts in whatever direction I trim the rudder. There is zero yaw, it simply drifts in whatever the direction the rudder is trimmed. I can even adjust the rudder trim in mid-flight and drift it back the other way. I tried the swap behavior observation mentioned in that thread mine behaves the same, 3 clicks or not. Under all circumstances, the swash gradually returns to "zero" on rudder input. Even with the 3 clicks (tried up to 5, makes no difference), the swash still slowly returns to "zero" after rudder movement.

Now I'm just confused.
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Last edited by AWDstylez; Sep 24, 2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDstylez View Post
the swash still slowly returns to "zero" after rudder movement.

Now I'm just confused.
My mSRX behaves the same as yours depending on what transmitter that I am using.

The heli gyros are constantly in rate mode with my DX6i. (the swash returns to zero)

They also stay in rate mode on my DX4e when I add expo.

With the stock transmitter they are in heading hold mode until I use the rudder.

I like flying it in rate mode. Some deliberately add 3 clicks of rudder to keep it this way.

spainman also reported that a colleague of his had the same circumstances with his DX8i.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Very interesting. I think I'll give it a go with the stock tx just to see what it flies like.



Well after a little flying there's good news and bad news. The good news is that this thing can now turn without crashing. It won't win any piro speed awards, but both slow left and right turns in my small bedroom are a breeze.

The bad news, this thing porpoises like no tomorrow, and not just in FFF. It will do it to either side and also backwards. It flies like the worst 45* flybar heli I can imagine. The other night I was able to fly well into my neighbor's yard before it shot to the moon. Today it shoots up so soon that I can hardly get any forward speed. I flew it up and down the street in massive, swinging archs. Often it would gain 15-20ft in altitude and in fact go BACKWARDS while holding full forward cyclic. I honestly didn't think it was possible for a non-flybar heli to resist forward flight so strongly. Rudder application mattered not, as it did this horrendous pendulum with or without touching the rudder. For one brief moment I was able to experience true FFF as a real heli would fly. From about 40 feet in the air (it had gained that much altitude doing these massive pendulum swings) it finally flew straight and true, never pulling up as I expected, gaining a tremendous head of speed in a beautiful, constant attitude just as I would like it to fly... straight into the pavement. Now that the canopy is shattered, I'm pretty ready to have HH take this pile of crap back and I think I'll go buy something for 1/5 of the price from Walkera.
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Last edited by AWDstylez; Sep 24, 2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:50 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
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Don't give up - Mine has done this before, I've fixed it (can't remember how now) then a few months later, I was fooling around with it and accidentally got it porpoising again (and fixed it again). It had to do with the trim on the front (elevator? Sorry, I'm a plane guy,different anatomy to me!) - shorten the front linkage a few turns, then do the opposite if this doesn't solve it. Also - check to make sure all of your ball linkages are hooked up - sounds basic, but I had one come free and didn't realize it for a surprisingly long time.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:52 PM
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^I gave it a crank down to no effect. I followed the servo leveling guidelines and they have improved turning 100 fold, but made the porpoising worse. Maybe I'll just arbitrarily dial in a few turns on the elevator and see what it does.

I wonder if temperature has something to do with it. It is a little chilly outside, maybe 15-20 degrees cooler than in the house. I'll let the heli sit out on my front steps while the batteries recharge.


Now, I don't know how accurate this is, but I just tried both the original MSR and the 120 SR on Phoenix. Both helicopters will let me fly forward indefinitely if I hold in forward cyclic. In fact, if I jam it forward and hold, they'll even let me stuff them right into the ground. Save for that one crash mentioned above, my MSRX refuses. Full foward cyclic results in a dive forward and a heroic shot skyward no matter what. I cannot replicate this on the sim even with a 45* flybar heli.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:56 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
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My MSRX will NOT porpoise. If i give it full cyclic it will eventually hit the ground - and at an alarming forward rate of speed.
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