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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:46 PM
Helis and Planes
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Mar 2012
240 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
If you charge the 120's batteries at 0.7 like the manual says they'll be fried in no time. Many who have the fried E-flite batteries say don't go above 0.5 max but I wouldn't even do that either. I charge mine at 0.2 or 0.3 max, and not just the E-flites... happy batteries
Thanks guys for all the help. The charger does have a .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, and .7 settings. I will stick to .1 setting and try to keep the batts at the safest settings. But with the 120's batts I will charge at .5.

You guys are great.


Also I got the mSRx it's mCPx tailboom and rotor. WOW!!!! I does make a HUGE difference. I say with the mSRx V2 if it ever makes it needs to go back to the longer tail boom. PLUS have all the fixes made to the issues we ALL have with the bird. But these tweeks make a big difference.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:53 PM
Just flew it
Cumbria, UK
Joined Feb 2005
290 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Toys View Post
I am trying to picture this..not sure if my mental video has it yet
So does this mean the board is remembering "absolute position"....I cant think of what else to call it

In other words lets say you got a deck of cards
Spool up the heli a little on a level table
Move stick for forward flight.
Place deck of cards under the back of the skids to level out the swash.
Now rotate the entire "mess" 180 degrees.
Does the swash stay put or go back the other way?
Use a cookie sheet or something similar to make it easier to rotate the whole mess if that makes it easier.Try it with doing it by the rudder next...add a little right rudder but move the cookie sheet faster than what the tail would normally move..should work

Good idea - here's my retest

Initialise flat, spool up
On a flat table top with a flat picture frame laying down, the frame has a raised edge of about 10mm
Tipped the back of the skids onto the raised frame and then gave forward stick until the swash came to 90' to the main shaft
It'll stay like that all day
Now I rotated the whole picture frame and heli assembly by about 90' in yaw, left the heli exactly as positioned before
The swash made a noticable roll and started to come back up to lift the nose
Using this test doesn't show how much the body would roll as the fbl would interact as soon as I rolled it
The swash didn't come fully back up with respect to the nose

In this basic test, I'd say that after 90 of yaw the roll had come on and the nose had come off by a similar amount

The rudder test really would need an extra pair of hands as I was holding the heli down with one and twisting the frame with the other

In case anyone hasn't been following, this is the mcpx, trying to understand why the cyclic control is different to the msrx
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:01 PM
Registered User
United States, MO, Columbia
Joined Dec 2011
330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeve1973 View Post
Thanks guys for all the help. The charger does have a .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, and .7 settings. I will stick to .1 setting and try to keep the batts at the safest settings. But with the 120's batts I will charge at .5.

You guys are great.


Also I got the mSRx it's mCPx tailboom and rotor. WOW!!!! I does make a HUGE difference. I say with the mSRx V2 if it ever makes it needs to go back to the longer tail boom. PLUS have all the fixes made to the issues we ALL have with the bird. But these tweeks make a big difference.
The stock charger charges at .3 so .1 may be painfully slow requiring you to wait about 1 and half hours {if the battery was totally flat}..but it never is

.2 should be about 40 minutes or so for a battery that hasnt been overly discharged.

Lets say you had a 500 mah battery
1c charge rate would be 500 mah which is .5 for your settings

This would take one hour if it was completely flat..actually a little longer as the charger will slow down at the end of the charge to keep checking the battery as it approached the full charge.

If ever in doubt just stick with 1c or under
In this case 150 mah would be .15
In your case the next lowest setting is .1
Good choice.

Now on to that boom
Did you have to re adjust your servo linkages after the new tail{did it become tail heavy?}..or drift right in hover with mild rudder?
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:06 PM
jbb
Registered User
Joined May 2006
210 Posts
My test was at the lhs only by hand, your test seems more proper

If it pans out then it might explain some things

Can u try it with motor unplugged or initialize the heli with part throttle , that trick works with msrx to keep the motor from spinning

And rotate 180'
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:12 PM
jbb
Registered User
Joined May 2006
210 Posts
Well u wrote that post long before my light came on....and I think I skimmed it too
Also u were ahead of where my thinking was at the time...u are the 'swash centering' pioneer I'm just pulling up the middle lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by spainman View Post
So you are in need for compliments or what is it?

Actually my post was unrelated to yours and it is not only you having a difficult time putting things into words, like you said yourself, but others having the patience of transferring that words back into something that makes sense to them, especially early in morning with only a few hours of sleep! I skimmed over it without paying too much attention.

But yes - after reading it now again - what you said in your post before mine goes in the same direction of what I wrote in my later post.

Anyway - next time you don't agree with one of my ideas just let me know immediately instead of waiting some weeks and coming back on me after I corrected myself

The bone of contention actually was seeing toys2cars2toys saying thanks for my old post, re-reading that post and wondering HOW to implement that (actually unneeded) rotation of the reference plane I was talking about, considering that the reference can be reset any time during the movement.

Starring onto the moving surface of the coffee in the cup gives a nice imaginary rotor disk plane btw. No need to move the heli around in the hand and it even smells and tastes better....

Cheers,
Ruben
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:22 PM
Registered User
United States, MO, Columbia
Joined Dec 2011
330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by toys2cars2toys View Post
Good idea - here's my retest

Initialise flat, spool up
On a flat table top with a flat picture frame laying down, the frame has a raised edge of about 10mm
Tipped the back of the skids onto the raised frame and then gave forward stick until the swash came to 90' to the main shaft
It'll stay like that all day
Now I rotated the whole picture frame and heli assembly by about 90' in yaw, left the heli exactly as positioned before
The swash made a noticable roll and started to come back up to lift the nose
Using this test doesn't show how much the body would roll as the fbl would interact as soon as I rolled it
The swash didn't come fully back up with respect to the nose

In this basic test, I'd say that after 90 of yaw the roll had come on and the nose had come off by a similar amount

The rudder test really would need an extra pair of hands as I was holding the heli down with one and twisting the frame with the other

In case anyone hasn't been following, this is the mcpx, trying to understand why the cyclic control is different to the msrx
Try a 180 rotation this should eliminate the swash ending up with any roll
You ended up with roll on the 90 which is understandable is there was absolute positioning..but shouldn't cause the pitch to change.

I could understand this behavior if we had an unintentional tail movement such as a strong gust..lets say you are in fff and the wind knocks the tail 45 degrees for s second..it would be beneficial if the for the swash to continue its path and disregard this false heading.

But if we moved the rudder with the stick to change our heading and absolute positioning occurred...this would cause fff to change to sideways {pitched} flight until we changed the cyclic.

I wish you had more hands or something you could sit inside the skids for weight..so you could check it with manual rudder application.
6 or 8 spoons should keep it down..if it doesnt...I will buy it from you

Edit
Or just unhook as per jbb suggestion
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Last edited by New Toys; Mar 16, 2012 at 07:30 PM.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:38 PM
Just flew it
Cumbria, UK
Joined Feb 2005
290 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbb View Post
My test was at the lhs only by hand, your test seems more proper

If it pans out then it might explain some things

Can u try it with motor unplugged or initialize the heli with part throttle , that trick works with msrx to keep the motor from spinning

And rotate 180'
Ok brief test, I'm going to bed!

Same as before this time with main motor disconnected, tail blade off

Interesting results
Without lots more testing
The more I play with it, the more that I see that the swash isn't moving nose up/down when I manually yaw it (or hardly moving)
But it is rolling, it rolls right with counter clockwise yaw and visa versa

The strange thing is that it keeps adding yaw the more that I rotate it, taking approx 360 before the roll servos max

So only half way like the beastx

Looks like it may be a poor mans yaw comp?


I must stress that these tests aren't realistic as I'm not simulating the resulant effects on the heli, maybe it would act differently again if I did


For fun I'll do it with my Trex450 BX tomorrow and I'll try again with the mcpx and rudder
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:46 PM
jbb
Registered User
Joined May 2006
210 Posts
Yeah try that stuff I'm very interested in how these work

Just to stay as basic as possible, could you throw this test in

Keep the heli flat on the skids , give fwd swash and then spin the heli yaw while it's still horizontal (don't tilt the heli to make the swash level)....compare the msrx mcpx and the bigger stuff....very interested in that.

This is actually how I tested my msrx and the lhs mcpx

This is also the pg 41 in the beastx manual...
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 08:09 PM
Helis and Planes
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Mar 2012
240 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Toys View Post
The stock charger charges at .3 so .1 may be painfully slow requiring you to wait about 1 and half hours {if the battery was totally flat}..but it never is

.2 should be about 40 minutes or so for a battery that hasnt been overly discharged.

Lets say you had a 500 mah battery
1c charge rate would be 500 mah which is .5 for your settings

This would take one hour if it was completely flat..actually a little longer as the charger will slow down at the end of the charge to keep checking the battery as it approached the full charge.

If ever in doubt just stick with 1c or under
In this case 150 mah would be .15
In your case the next lowest setting is .1
Good choice.

Now on to that boom
Did you have to re adjust your servo linkages after the new tail{did it become tail heavy?}..or drift right in hover with mild rudder?
Thanks for the info on the batts.

As for the tail boom I personally did not really see a shift in the balance but I only flew for about 5 min. I will continue to test. Just not tonight. There was no real shift in flight from take off. I will though have to try it indoors, I had flown it outdoors. I will let you know.

I may try a short flight indoors tonight still. If not I definitely will tomorrow.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 08:43 PM
Registered User
United States, MO, Columbia
Joined Dec 2011
330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeve1973 View Post
Thanks for the info on the batts.

As for the tail boom I personally did not really see a shift in the balance but I only flew for about 5 min. I will continue to test. Just not tonight. There was no real shift in flight from take off. I will though have to try it indoors, I had flown it outdoors. I will let you know.

I may try a short flight indoors tonight still. If not I definitely will tomorrow.
Sounds like a a good upgrade
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:32 PM
Helis and Planes
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Mar 2012
240 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Toys View Post
Sounds like a a good upgrade
Well I flew it even with the better half around.

I have noticed one thing but not sure if it is because of my livingrooms size and the air flow in it, but I did notice it tended to do some swaying forwards and back. Reason I don't know is because the 120SR did the same thing. I will continue the testing and keep you informed.
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Last edited by peeve1973; Mar 17, 2012 at 08:15 AM.
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 12:04 PM
Registered User
United States, MO, Columbia
Joined Dec 2011
330 Posts
It shouldnt sway unless it is in rate mode {rudder trim not on zero}
The software prevents "sway and settle" unless the rudder is on.
Its easy to check with the stock radio...just be sure all trims are on zero...some people have had a little more trouble with other radios getting the trims at zero as they can be a little more complicated
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 12:14 PM
Helis and Planes
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Mar 2012
240 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Toys View Post
It shouldnt sway unless it is in rate mode {rudder trim not on zero}
The software prevents "sway and settle" unless the rudder is on.
Its easy to check with the stock radio...just be sure all trims are on zero...some people have had a little more trouble with other radios getting the trims at zero as they can be a little more complicated
I just did some flying at my parents house where there is a ton more room indoors and out. Indoors the heli is flying like an ace now. No sway and turns are manageable. I can't fly outsides due to stronger breeze. So I would say the 19$ I spent on the tail boom was worth it.

I have also discussed the aluminum blade grips with some guys in my area and they all said once you start there you will end up breaking more down the chain (ie swash plate, shaft...) Then you replace everything and in the end the hardest impact goes to the motor. So for the few bucks the plastic blade grips are I will stay with them but make sure I have 2-3 sets on hand! LOL

Cheers and happy flying!
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 12:48 PM
Registered User
United States, MO, Columbia
Joined Dec 2011
330 Posts
I have only broken one blade grip ball so far..was right after I first got it.
As you say..better than breaking something else down lower though
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 01:10 PM
Registered User
United States, MO, Columbia
Joined Dec 2011
330 Posts
I am going to sell mine...they just gave me a new one{with documentation} due to all the issues I was having.
I checked it in my hand for the swash issue/ it still does it.


I just ran it for 3 and half minutes to see what happened in the air...same thing..still does it.....but didnt do a sudden tail drop..Links were set properly..I dont know if they are coming that way now or if the tech did it.

They had tried new boards prior..but didnt work..new ones did it as well
So I have for sale a new msrx with an extra board..and extra tail..the boom is cracked rather well though on the spare tail
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