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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:02 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Australia, SA, Burra
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I just joined the beast club I always thought it looked like a beautiful plane, but when you actually have one in your hands its simply astonishing.

Unfortunately I dont have batteries and a charging cable for it yet. I ordered some 180mah nanotechs and the HK eflite parallel charger/balancer for my B6AC.

I have already cut it open to check out the layout, I think I might add some lights and a v-tail mixer for flaperons (with gyro) while I wait for my batteries

Is the no expo thing just a myth, or does it actually have some substance to it?

Whats the minimum low rat travel adjust, would 40% be ok?

Also do the linear servos get stuck on 100% travel, should I dial my high rate travels down to 93-95% to avoid lock ups?

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Originally Posted by strows View Post
Just received my wheel pants from Shapeways, these things look awesome! I am rebuilding my UMX Beast 3D, after lots of practice and many crashes it's time to replace the main wing, fuselage, rudder and elevator. Once its all done and ready I'll post up more pictures.
They look pretty awesome, do you have a link for them?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:30 PM
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
I just joined the beast club I always thought it looked like a beautiful plane, but when you actually have one in your hands its simply astonishing..................Is the no expo thing just a myth, or does it actually have some substance to it?
ValiantGLX,

Welcome to the club!

What 'no expo thing'? You can use whatever amount of expo or dual-rates you wish. It's just that AS3X makes these planes fly so big & smooth that many pilots find they no longer need expo or low rates, or that they only need a fraction of what they're accustomed to using.

However, you can't use any sub-trim or anything more than 3-4 clicks of regular trim because AS3X will interpret it as pilot input, which causes a number of handling problems. Once you get the plane trimmed-out in flight, be sure to transfer your tx trims to mechanical trim. Also, never go past 100% travel or rates on your tx, as it will damage the linear servos. In fact, it's best to reduce the end-points to +/- 95-98% to account for variations in pulse-width between transmitters, as a preventative measure against linear servo binding.

Joel
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:38 PM
Master of Micro Modding
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Australia, SA, Burra
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
ValiantGLX,

Welcome to the club!

What 'no expo thing'? You can use whatever amount of expo or dual-rates you wish. It's just that AS3X makes these planes fly so big & smooth that many pilots find they no longer need expo or low rates, or that they only need a fraction of what they're accustomed to using.

However, you can't use any sub-trim or anything more than 3-4 clicks of regular trim because AS3X will interpret it as pilot input, which causes a number of handling problems. Once you get the plane trimmed-out in flight, be sure to transfer your tx trims to mechanical trim. Also, never go past 100% travel or rates on your tx, as it will damage the linear servos. In fact, it's best to reduce the end-points to +/- 95-98% to account for variations in pulse-width between transmitters, as a preventative measure against linear servo binding.

Joel
Cheers mate

__________________________________________________ ________________

Has anyone tried a v-tail mixer yet to get full functioning flaperons with the gyro working on both ailerons? I was just thinking it might not work with linear servos, oh well worst case scenario is I add some HK 1.9g servos to the equation
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:53 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Cheers mate

__________________________________________________ ________________

Has anyone tried a v-tail mixer yet to get full functioning flaperons with the gyro working on both ailerons? I was just thinking it might not work with linear servos, oh well worst case scenario is I add some HK 1.9g servos to the equation
I'm not sure why you are asking. The Beast3D already has a 3 axis gyro in it. Also once properly trimmed the B3D will happily fly along in high alpha at a walking pace. Flaperons would only decrease performance in most cases. The only real use is for inverted high alpha flying or for mixing them to elevator for tighter flips. However the B3D already can do a tight flip so they are completely unnecessary on this plane.

Also those 1.9HK servos will probably not last long with the duty cycle AS3X demands. You'll have to look for "Helicopter tail" rated servos.

-Brian
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
I'm not sure why you are asking. The Beast3D already has a 3 axis gyro in it. Also once properly trimmed the B3D will happily fly along in high alpha at a walking pace. Flaperons would only decrease performance in most cases. The only real use is for inverted high alpha flying or for mixing them to elevator for tighter flips. However the B3D already can do a tight flip so they are completely unnecessary on this plane.

Also those 1.9HK servos will probably not last long with the duty cycle AS3X demands. You'll have to look for "Helicopter tail" rated servos.

-Brian
Im asking because the gyro doesnt work with flaperons with these bricks, you can get the flaperons to work but the gyro will only work on one side, right?

I want it to fly slow without being in high alpha, then be as crazy as I want at the flick of a switch.

I think the 1.9g digital servos should hold up well, even if they don't at $4 a pop you cant complain.

Also the differential TX function should work too with the v_tail mixer, or does it work with with the reversed channel 2?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Im asking because the gyro doesnt work with flaperons with these bricks, you can get the flaperons to work but the gyro will only work on one side, right?

I want it to fly slow without being in high alpha, then be as crazy as I want at the flick of a switch.

I think the 1.9g digital servos should hold up well, even if they don't at $4 a pop you cant complain.

Also the differential TX function should work too with the v_tail mixer, or does it work with with the reversed channel 2?
Flaperons reduce the Critical AoA for a wing stall. This will make the plane easier to stall.

If you still want to try there there was someone on the Mig-15 Mod thread who used a v-tail mixer to add spoilerons his mig. Check it out here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...9#post23585948 post 582 if the link doesn't work.

Still I'd advise against it.

-Brian
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
...

I think the 1.9g digital servos should hold up well, even if they don't at $4 a pop you cant complain.

...
The complaining occurs when a servo failure puts your plane in the ground. Paying $4 to replace the failed servo is the least of your problems!
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 04:55 AM
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Ok I just ordered a linear servo reverser, so I can use the original servos with the v-tail mixer Then there will be no chance of complaints

I also ordered some Carbon Cub silver servo covers

While the flaperons/spoilerons and flap-elevator mixing may not be needed, I paid top dollar for a fancy TX with heaps of features, therefore I want to use these features, or at least know that I can use them if I want.

The weight of the v_tail mixer + servo reverser should be no more than several grams combined. I will remove any unnecessary wires/plugs/casing/ect and replace them with the jst-sh plugs and 32awg servo wire. Also I'll hard wire the reverser to the v-tail mixer.

And before you say it I know the wires aren't in the right places on the HK jst-sh plugs

This guy was pretty happy with his flaperons on the original beast:
E-flite Beast, Modified, AP05 Motor, XP-7A ESC, Flaperons (10 min 3 sec)
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 05:12 AM
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Each to their own
I would like a similar setup in mine, even it's just so I can tweak the aileron differential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
The weight of the v_tail mixer + servo reverser should be no more than several grams combined.
You do know that the servo reverser comes out again after it has been used?


Tony
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Each to their own
I would like a similar setup in mine, even it's just so I can tweak the aileron differential.


You do know that the servo reverser comes out again after it has been used?


Tony
So very true! I think its ludicrous that HH doesnt allow for flaperons etc with the AS3X bricks. They push us towards buying computer radios then say 'No! you cant use those features'

Are you serious thats pretty darn cool should even save a bit more weight then

How does it work? does it have a switch on it? or do you just plug it in power up the RX, power down the RX, remove the reverser, power up your RX again and viola reversed servo?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:29 AM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Ok I just ordered a linear servo reverser, so I can use the original servos with the v-tail mixer Then there will be no chance of complaints

I also ordered some Carbon Cub silver servo covers

While the flaperons/spoilerons and flap-elevator mixing may not be needed, I paid top dollar for a fancy TX with heaps of features, therefore I want to use these features, or at least know that I can use them if I want.

The weight of the v_tail mixer + servo reverser should be no more than several grams combined. I will remove any unnecessary wires/plugs/casing/ect and replace them with the jst-sh plugs and 32awg servo wire. Also I'll hard wire the reverser to the v-tail mixer.

And before you say it I know the wires aren't in the right places on the HK jst-sh plugs

This guy was pretty happy with his flaperons on the original beast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC9C54jase0
The original Beast and the B3D are pretty different. However have fun, It is what this hobby is all about. I can tell you from first hand experience the flight performance will not be as good with the flaperons. And even with a generous deflection the Beast will not fly slowly on the wing It'll still need to be in high alpha, and flaperon only decreases high alpha stability. Spoileron(up) would help stability but the plane would be in an even higher nose up attitude.

Again good luck with it, and I hope the link I posted to the v-tail setup from the mig thread helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
So very true! I think its ludicrous that HH doesnt allow for flaperons etc with the AS3X bricks. They push us towards buying computer radios then say 'No! you cant use those features'

Are you serious thats pretty darn cool should even save a bit more weight then

How does it work? does it have a switch on it? or do you just plug it in power up the RX, power down the RX, remove the reverser, power up your RX again and viola reversed servo?
Yes, You plug the servo reverser in and then power on the brick, wait for the beeps then power it off. Remove the reverser. The servo will then be permanently reversed. The servo itself has a chip on it.

All the servo reverser does is short two pins on the servo. I forget which two but a quick search should find it if you wanted to reverse a servo without buying the reverser.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:44 AM
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Thanks, I think I will cancel my order I found an old thread about it and it seems easy enough to reverse the servos

Heres a little diagram I just knocked up, Although I may have it the wrong way around (wires are correct but Im not 100% on which side plugs into the RX):

EDIT: Also I dont mean to insult you, but did your first hand experience include a v-tail mixer, or was the gyro only working on side? If the gyro is functioning on both ailerons it may be more stable.

Im a tinkerer so I'll have fun experimenting with different settings and flaperons and/or spoilerons regardless of the outcome
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 07:08 AM
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Thanks, I think I will cancel my order I found an old thread about it and it seems easy enough to reverse the servos

Heres a little diagram I just knocked up, Although I may have it the wrong way around (wires are correct but Im not 100% on which side plugs into the RX):

EDIT: Also I dont mean to insult you, but did your first hand experience include a v-tail mixer, or was the gyro only working on side? If the gyro is functioning on both ailerons it may be more stable.

Im a tinkerer so I'll have fun experimenting with different settings and flaperons and/or spoilerons regardless of the outcome
no offense taken

My experience was with the non-AS3X versions. I found that after about 10 degrees of flaperon the stall speed wasn't decreased anymore and it actually became much more violent in stall and less predictable. At this scale it was probably a 1mph difference. With the Beasts extremely narrow wing and a 10% airfoil (almost flat at this scale) and the sharp leading edges flaperon is going to cause a sharp stall that even AS3X wont be able to correct for.

I do hope it works well for you and I'd love to see the results. I strongly advise you do some stall testing up high enough for safe recovery before trying it low and for landings so you can see how the plane will react.


Also there is no need for any cable to reverse the servo, you could simply bridge the two wires on the servo at the connector. This would accomplish the same thing.

-Brian
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:58 PM
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United States, CA, South Gate
Joined Nov 2012
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Wheel Pants

Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
I just joined the beast club I always thought it looked like a beautiful plane, but when you actually have one in your hands its simply astonishing.

Unfortunately I dont have batteries and a charging cable for it yet. I ordered some 180mah nanotechs and the HK eflite parallel charger/balancer for my B6AC.

I have already cut it open to check out the layout, I think I might add some lights and a v-tail mixer for flaperons (with gyro) while I wait for my batteries

Is the no expo thing just a myth, or does it actually have some substance to it?

Whats the minimum low rat travel adjust, would 40% be ok?

Also do the linear servos get stuck on 100% travel, should I dial my high rate travels down to 93-95% to avoid lock ups?



They look pretty awesome, do you have a link for them?
Hi valiantGLX, check out this link, also if you plan on up grading your prop to 5030 you should also order the nose cone form Shapeways. Oreders take about 2 and 1/2 weeks to arrive.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/30623...ductBox-search
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by strows View Post
Hi valiantGLX, check out this link, also if you plan on up grading your prop to 5030 you should also order the nose cone form Shapeways. Oreders take about 2 and 1/2 weeks to arrive.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/30623...ductBox-search
Be aware those are kinda heavy compared to the stock one. You will need to adjust the battery to accommodate for the added mass way up front.

-Brian
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