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Old Mar 14, 2012, 12:59 PM
LiPo-Sucker & Airframe EMT
pugsam's Avatar
Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2010
3,791 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
.....If you get the elevons working, you'll have one awesome windy day flyer. Goodluck.
Thanks for the good thoughts.

Your point about the elevons seems to be a show-stopper. Erkq, above on this thread, said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
It won't work because the elevator gyro is connected to only one servo output at the receiver so there's nothing you can do with mixes for that. You need the elevator gyro to act on both elevons. Just think what would happen if only a single elevon were used to correct pitch!

The ailerons have a similar problem.
Too bad. You're so right, Silverexpress, about how awesome it would be to fly an AS3X Stryker on a windy day!

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Old Mar 14, 2012, 01:32 PM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
I'm starting to think that slightly beat-up Beast flies better than a brand new one! I put mine through the ringer last night in my front yard. Now that I'm really getting the hang of rolling harriers on my larger planes I'm trying to translate that same knowledge to my wee Beastie.

Well... I can say that I've basically got them nailed down but I beat up my little Beast in the process that's for sure! I can now do full rate rolling harriers on the Beast and they are smooth as silk. But trying to do them in a fairly tight space will REALLY test your skills and your nerve.

I need to get some video footage up again soon. I'm also really starting to figure out torque rolls on this plane as well so that I'm more in control once it starts torque rolling. I'm trying to control it so that it doesn't just fall out of the roll. I've had a few instances where I get way too many rotations to count but it requires you to establish a perfectly balanced stationary hover first and then if you EASE into the torque roll while staying perfectly balanced then you can slowly speed up the roll (by gradually letting off right aileron) and sometimes go into a full left aileron roll where it will spin madly. If you get it right you can hold it for quite a while. It's pretty cool!
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 01:47 PM
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United States, GA, Marietta
Joined Dec 2011
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I'd love to see the vid Turnerm... the 3D stuff is cool, but somewhat confusing to me. I can see that most of the flight damage on these planes is from doing/learning 3D lol.


Couple questions.... how much flight time are you getting from Hyperion 180's on the stock setup?? ... and how long do you wait between flights???

Had a perfect flying day after work yesterday (love the daylight savings time change). ZERO wind, slightly overcast. I am still waiting on my 5043 prop (have not put the V1 motor in yet), so running stock. Most of my flying was pattern, and basic acrobatics, and 90% was full throttle. I ran through 3 hyperion 240's, then started on my 180's. Really was not waiting at all between flights as this motor will be out of the plane in a day or 2 max anyway. I broke in the hyperions on a 3 minute timer, then had changed to a 4 minute timer for about 10 flights each, and now had it set at 4 mins, 30 seconds. First 180 was fine, timer went off, landed. The second one at the timer I noticed the plane slowing, brought it over near me... heard the LVC (first time ever), and landed immediately. The next (and last hyper 180) then went in the plane and hit LVC just over 4 mins... lost power very fast.. literally had to land where the plane was cuz it was coming down. Just to see after landing I tried to throttle it to hear close up the LVC noise, motor would even come on. Think I had read somewhere that after a few flights the motor will use more power as it is warm, this could explain it, and would mean I need to run the weaker batteries first. But does make me wonder if I will even be able to use my 180's after the motor prop change. Also I have not ruled out that this motor (which is my problem motor, but seems ok now) may be pulling more current that it should.

Opinions?
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 01:59 PM
LiPo-Sucker & Airframe EMT
pugsam's Avatar
Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2010
3,791 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonshade View Post
..... the 3D stuff is cool, but somewhat confusing to me.

I can see that most of the flight damage on these planes is from doing/learning 3D lol.
+1 on both of those points!

(BTW -- In simple terms, what's the diff between a rolling harrier and a torque roll? Do they look pretty much the same to spectators, even if the pilot initiates and controls them differently?)

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Old Mar 14, 2012, 02:00 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,184 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swilson50 View Post
For you guys who are putting your Beast AS3X bick in other planes, which aileron servos are you using?
Thanks
Swilson50
aka Stan in Dodge City
Stan,

The new HD linear servos that were designed for AS3X are mandatory. Horizon's older linear servos can't handle the extreme loads of a fly-by-wire system, such as AS3X.

Joel
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 02:18 PM
**I'm Battman**
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Twin Falls, Idaho
Joined Jan 2005
8,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsam View Post
+1 on both of those points!

(BTW -- In simple terms, what's the diff between a rolling harrier and a torque roll? Do they look pretty much the same to spectators, even if the pilot initiates and controls them differently?)


Pug,

Time to spend some time with the BoneDoc.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904349

Also, the B3D isn't the machine to begin with.



rc
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 02:29 PM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonshade View Post
I'd love to see the vid Turnerm... the 3D stuff is cool, but somewhat confusing to me. I can see that most of the flight damage on these planes is from doing/learning 3D lol.


Couple questions.... how much flight time are you getting from Hyperion 180's on the stock setup?? ... and how long do you wait between flights???

Had a perfect flying day after work yesterday (love the daylight savings time change). ZERO wind, slightly overcast. I am still waiting on my 5043 prop (have not put the V1 motor in yet), so running stock. Most of my flying was pattern, and basic acrobatics, and 90% was full throttle. I ran through 3 hyperion 240's, then started on my 180's. Really was not waiting at all between flights as this motor will be out of the plane in a day or 2 max anyway. I broke in the hyperions on a 3 minute timer, then had changed to a 4 minute timer for about 10 flights each, and now had it set at 4 mins, 30 seconds. First 180 was fine, timer went off, landed. The second one at the timer I noticed the plane slowing, brought it over near me... heard the LVC (first time ever), and landed immediately. The next (and last hyper 180) then went in the plane and hit LVC just over 4 mins... lost power very fast.. literally had to land where the plane was cuz it was coming down. Just to see after landing I tried to throttle it to hear close up the LVC noise, motor would even come on. Think I had read somewhere that after a few flights the motor will use more power as it is warm, this could explain it, and would mean I need to run the weaker batteries first. But does make me wonder if I will even be able to use my 180's after the motor prop change. Also I have not ruled out that this motor (which is my problem motor, but seems ok now) may be pulling more current that it should.

Opinions?
I get about 6 minutes on the Hyperion 180's and stock setup. I get about 6:30 on the Hyperion 240's. But keep in mind I RARELY go full throttle since most of my flying in in harrier or slow, high alpha KE.
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 02:35 PM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsam View Post
+1 on both of those points!

(BTW -- In simple terms, what's the diff between a rolling harrier and a torque roll? Do they look pretty much the same to spectators, even if the pilot initiates and controls them differently?)

No. They are very different manuevers.

A torque roll in (usually) when you have the plane locked into a hover and it begins to rotate to the left. I perfectly executed torque roll will have the plane sitting still and rotating perfectly around it's axis without drifting (but this is rather difficult).

I can do them with my larger planes MUCH easier than with the 3D Beast. The smaller plane means you have to be WAY quicker on the sticks.

A rolling harrier is a manuever where your flying in harrier (tail stalled) but the plane is rolling without losing altitude. There are many varieties of this but that's mainly what it is. You can go in circles (a rolling circle) or you can roll straight (rolling while the plane travels in a straight line). You can also do normal rollers where you're rolling but not in harrier.

To see examples of both, check out this video of my 51" Slick from this past weekend. It's mainly full of rolling circles/harriers but I think there's a dirty torque roll or two in there too.

3DHS 51" Slick - Rollers Practice (6 min 16 sec)
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 03:40 PM
Mile High Pilot
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USA, CO, Longmont
Joined Jun 2010
1,175 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCBABBEL View Post
Pug,

Time to spend some time with the BoneDoc.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904349

Also, the B3D isn't the machine to begin with.



rc
I have a few 3d tricks up my sleeve, but not a lot yet. I have a 3DHS Extra 300 SHP which I think is easier to 3D than the Beast - by quite a bit. Im ordering up an EPP foamie (Twisted Hobby Extra Slick) by the end of the week, and hoping I can REALLY build my skills there.

The Sim has been "helpful", but for whatever reason, I dont translate well from Sim to reality for 3D maneuvers - I think just because I'm too chicken to fly the Extra 300 low when trying 3D - For example, I think a hover would be "easier" if it were at 10' where I can see it than it is at 75' where I'm comfortable that I can recover before having a bad case of toothpickitis.

I expect the Beast will be the HARDEST of my planes to 3D - despite its fantastic responsiveness - but I could be wrong, would not be the first time!

jc
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 03:56 PM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighjc View Post
I have a 3DHS Extra 300 SHP which I think is easier to 3D than the Beast - by quite a bit.
Without a doubt. The 3D Beast is really a plane that experienced 3D guys MIGHT be able to do some pretty cool stuff with but it's certainly not a good 3D learning platform in my opinion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighjc View Post
Im ordering up an EPP foamie (Twisted Hobby Extra Slick) by the end of the week, and hoping I can REALLY build my skills there.
I don't have the Extra Slick but I do have the Crack Yak. It's fun and will help with your 3D skills to a certain degree. It helped me with my rollers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighjc View Post
The Sim has been "helpful", but for whatever reason, I dont translate well from Sim to reality for 3D maneuvers
I agree in part on this. The Sim is good for learning orientation type stuff (like inverted harriers and belly-in hovering/torque rolls but some things (like rolling harriers) didn't translate very well to real life for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighjc View Post
I think just because I'm too chicken to fly the Extra 300 low when trying 3D - For example, I think a hover would be "easier" if it were at 10' where I can see it than it is at 75' where I'm comfortable that I can recover before having a bad case of toothpickitis.
This is a "chicken and egg" sort of debate actually. I think you need to be low enough to see what's going on but I understand the fear. Actually... if you just get really low (like a foot or so) when practicing hovers it's even easier and you're less likely to damage your plane unless you panic. I think I started practicing hovers at about 25 feet and then gradually started coming on down. Just this morning I screwed up a torque roll with my 51" Slick and she did a little cartwheel on the ground but it did zero damage because I was only inches from the ground to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighjc View Post
I expect the Beast will be the HARDEST of my planes to 3D - despite its fantastic responsiveness - but I could be wrong, would not be the first time!
You are NOT wrong here. This plane is not easy to 3D with. It's fun and it's rewarding but it's not the easiest.
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 04:06 PM
**I'm Battman**
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Twin Falls, Idaho
Joined Jan 2005
8,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighjc View Post
I have a few 3d tricks up my sleeve, but not a lot yet. I have a 3DHS Extra 300 SHP which I think is easier to 3D than the Beast - by quite a bit. Im ordering up an EPP foamie (Twisted Hobby Extra Slick) by the end of the week, and hoping I can REALLY build my skills there.

The Sim has been "helpful", but for whatever reason, I dont translate well from Sim to reality for 3D maneuvers - I think just because I'm too chicken to fly the Extra 300 low when trying 3D - For example, I think a hover would be "easier" if it were at 10' where I can see it than it is at 75' where I'm comfortable that I can recover before having a bad case of toothpickitis.

I expect the Beast will be the HARDEST of my planes to 3D - despite its fantastic responsiveness - but I could be wrong, would not be the first time!

jc


jc,


Lil bro is a Slick addict.

Excellent plane!

Just put in a bunch of stick time and have some fun!

rc
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 04:57 PM
No, I dont work for HH ;)
Bowerz's Avatar
Southampton, Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2009
3,787 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCBABBEL View Post
jc,


Lil bro is a Slick addict.

Excellent plane!

Just put in a bunch of stick time and have some fun!

rc
What thickness epp is that?? I've got some 5mm and want something similar!
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 05:07 PM
Mile High Pilot
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USA, CO, Longmont
Joined Jun 2010
1,175 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
This is a "chicken and egg" sort of debate actually. I think you need to be low enough to see what's going on but I understand the fear. Actually... if you just get really low (like a foot or so) when practicing hovers it's even easier and you're less likely to damage your plane unless you panic. I think I started practicing hovers at about 25 feet and then gradually started coming on down. Just this morning I screwed up a torque roll with my 51" Slick and she did a little cartwheel on the ground but it did zero damage because I was only inches from the ground to begin with.
I'm thinking the EPP bird is what I can build confidence on... even if I do put it on the ground, the likelihood of significant damage is much less than with the Extra, or the Beast. I'm hoping that I can build enough confidence in low maneuvers with the Extra Slick that I can start doing more and lower stuff with the 300 and Beast

Thanks for the comments... good things to think about! Cant wait to get the ES in, and start messing around. I hoping it will make me a better Extra Pilot, and a better Beast Pilot - if even by a little bit.

I will be interesting to see how skills developed on IT will translate to the Beast (or extra).
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 07:51 PM
LiPo-Sucker & Airframe EMT
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Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2010
3,791 Posts
RC,

Thanks for the link to the Bone Doc, and tip about the Extra Slick.

I'm hoping to make good use of both leads.........



Dave
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 09:28 PM
Gone Huckin'
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