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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:22 PM
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michigan
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Originally Posted by hawk01 View Post
hi ej189,

as always amazing flying you do! are you still using the stock ESC with the Xtreme Spin motor? if not, then what esc are you using and is it plug and play for both aftermarket esc and motor?

also, what tail clutch are you using? did you glue the A and B gears to the torque tube now that you have a tail clutch?
Also what pinion are u using with your spin motor
Thanks George
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Uhm... No, the v120 does not come out of the box flying like that. But the 130X does. The v120 flies nice for stock "out of the box" but it can't fly like in EJ's or my own videos without some serious tuning, lubrication and a better motor. The stock motor bogs out and just does not provide the 3d consistency of these upgraded motors or the 2S battery/motor configuration the 130X has. The KDBB 130X blades also lighten the load considerably and allow it to fly as good as you see. EJ also lightened his helicopters a lot so he can still get 5 minute flights out of a stock pack using an upgraded motor and the proper pinion. He also removed the CF tail fin which from what i can tell watching his videos is why he can fly in reverse without the heli spinning out. my V120s both drift erratically in reverse flight then spin around uncontrollable if you get into fast reverse like he was doing. So i always just avoid trying reverse flight because it never works out. In the end both helicopters require some modification to fly stable. The 130 only has a tail vibration problem. While the V120 requires a slipper clutch, new motor, new blades and... by now i wish the 130X was out when i bought my first heli this size. But at this point, with my experience, all the extra money i spent and upgrade parts. I suppose my V120 flies just as good, if not better than a 130X.

So while i will continue to say the V120D02S is one of the best helicopters in this size but Walkera makes the worst helicopters in the whole market if we are talking about helicopters above the 120 size. That is my experience and my opinion. Take it as a warning. But my helicopter as well as EJ's helicopter or any V120 you see flying like this. Doing 3D without bogging and doing full 3D maneuvers consistently one after the other. Typically it has an $50 upgraded motor in it at the least! So, all of a sudden your not saving any money going with Walkera.

Oh on top of that. I'd probably bet my whole heli that the Blade gyros work better. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many people asking if the Blade RX/gyro will fit and work in the V120. Which would be a cool little project. Spektrum compatible RX/gyro on the V120. Sounds good to me.

Also, i feel this is why it's important to change the designation of your helicopter when you upgrade it. So people don't think the heli they see flying in the video is the stock heli and go out and buy one thinking that it will react like these modified versions.
look at how much a stock 130x costs....the proper mods on the v120 puts you right around the same price. Most people who talk about how great their 130X is have done mods to it. Not saying it can fly well enough but from MANY posts i've seen it took a lot of work to get it right and then it was brilliant. Since when does the v120 REQUIRE the slipper clutch. It isn't necessary at all but it is definitely nice to have. I'm not being argumentative here either. I'm just saying that if you actually take a modded 120 and a modded 130 and put it in the hands of a capable pilot i think he'd find that both hold their own and both will have strengths and weaknesses but both will be deemed very capable heli's.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:44 PM
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Taiwan, Hsinchu City
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Originally Posted by hawk01 View Post
so you drip the CA on the torque tube, let it dry then install the B gear. is this correct?? at times i am almost tempted to CA the B gear to the torque tube realizing how such a small meat of the D-hole is actually holding onto the torque tube! at least the A gear in front has more beef holding onto the tube.

i think you can even get away gluing both A and B gears to the torque tube if you install a tail slipper clutch, which for now is looming asap for me to do! hehe
No, I glue the B gear instantaneously before the CA dry. Don't worry its reversible, the CA is easy to clean if you drip the CA on the tube side not gear. Also you can only drip it on the plane side of D shape shaft, that is sufficient to glue the B gear.
I didn't install andy slipper clutch, but I learned a small tip. The A and B gear get D hole round because the torque tube made from solid metal is too sharp and hard to twist. After I replaced the tube by carbon one, I had never got any D hole round. However, there are some tail vibration when pitch change intensely such as tic-toc move, owing to the twist of carbon shaft under large load.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Grant Litmanen View Post
No, I glue the B gear instantaneously before the CA dry. Don't worry its reversible, the CA is easy to clean if you drip the CA on the tube side not gear. Also you can only drip it on the plane side of D shape shaft, that is sufficient to glue the B gear.
I didn't install andy slipper clutch, but I learned a small tip. The A and B gear get D hole round because the torque tube made from solid metal is too sharp and hard to twist. After I replaced the tube by carbon one, I had never got any D hole round. However, there are some tail vibration when pitch change intensely such as tic-toc move, owing to the twist of carbon shaft under large load.
great i shall then glue my B gear to the flat on the drive shaft as you advised. the CF mod you did in place of the metal shaft is actually the original material used in the earlier V120d02S. after some reading they say that although the D hole in the gear remains unchanged during crashes, it is the CF shaft that gets rounded out after constant stress. although i would think the CF material thin as it is may endure some twisting motion during crashes helping to ease out stripped tail gears...
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
look at how much a stock 130x costs....the proper mods on the v120 puts you right around the same price. Most people who talk about how great their 130X is have done mods to it. Not saying it can fly well enough but from MANY posts i've seen it took a lot of work to get it right and then it was brilliant. Since when does the v120 REQUIRE the slipper clutch. It isn't necessary at all but it is definitely nice to have. I'm not being argumentative here either. I'm just saying that if you actually take a modded 120 and a modded 130 and put it in the hands of a capable pilot i think he'd find that both hold their own and both will have strengths and weaknesses but both will be deemed very capable heli's.
I think both the V120 and the 130X are a pile. Micro CPs are new technology, relatively speaking. For me they cannot keep the head speed up long enough in the winds i have here to keep the heli in the air. The small heli are also pretty unstable compared to a 250 or 450. But if i were to buy a new micro now, it would probably be the V120D02S and i would most likely, if i can even find one, have to buy the 3 axis gyro/RX to install in it and the blades and the motor. So all of a sudden the $200 BNF V120D02S becomes a $260 helicopter with only the 3 axis RX upgrade plus the motor and new blades or whatever will cost more. I'm almost positive that because of my flight style it would be mandatory for me to get the 3 axis to enjoy the heli. If the 6 Axis worked out, that would be fine too. But I'm not that lucky, i don't think. I think the slipper clutch IS needed because the v120 is the only heli i still crash every day. So unless you want to spend lots of money you don't need to. The slipper clutch is needed. The 130X is reportedly more durable and less likely to strip tail gears. This is likely due to the low mass blades and better materials used on the gears. But who knows. This could just be "hear-say". In the end i think both are too much hassle and too much life time overhead on the 130X for repairs and things for that tail. Now that my 450 has all upgraded electronics, it hardly ever has any issues and only needs the batteries charged and the bearings lubed. Same with my X5. The two v120s actually to a point are fairly maintenance free. I just replace the sheer pin after every crash. Same thing with the V120D05 custom i fly. But that is actually more durable and less maintenance than the V120D02S because it's a belt drive tail with an aluminum tail boom that does not crack all the time. BUT even though i never have to pay for servos, gears or other mechanical parts for the heli. It also will not keep it's self in the air. Both of them drift heavy and spin out if you go too fast in reverse. The faster you go the faster the spin out happens. You can fight the yaw manually if your moving slower. But honestly this behavior from these heli have prevented me from progressing in learning and becoming comfortable with reverse flight. Which i can do pretty well in the sim. They both also bog down, loosing head speed, even if it's only slightly it seems to just consistently go slower with time and crash almost every flight by about 1-2 minutes into the flight i need to chill out, but don't and crash. I think i may need to go 2S but i don't know if it's worth all this, MORE money in upgrades. It would SUCK if i kept stripping gears or servos, but i don't. So all in all after everything I've made the helicopter as indestructible as any heli could possibly be, i think. That alone is great. But they just won't stay in the air for me, which is just ironic. A 2 minute test flight of the 130X at the LHS showed me that it could definitely pitch pump a TON of times and keep the power going. Could have just been new batteries vs my older ones. But it could pitch pump a LOT in repetition. I really would have to fly them back to back and be able to really fly the heli in a field to get a feel for it and know for sure. But because of the constant tail issues i could never tell someone to go buy a 130X. If you HAVE to get a 120-130 whatever size. I guess the V120D02S is the only option out there, unfortunately. I still think all learning should be done in a sim, since the technology exists. I don't know why everyone doesn't use them. It's like my 16 year old nephew, always asking me things, usually stupid things. Like he doesn't have a smart phone with google on it or a computer to use. But he sure the hell knows how to waste time taking pictures and posting what he made for lunch on facebook, while his lunch goes cold.

Oh yeah, just FYI the 130X i flew did have a tail vibration, very noticeable on spool up. Once in the air it seemed to be gone though. I looked at the guy while it was vibrating on the floor. He just kind of looked at me and nodded. I couldn't help but crack a smile then lift off anyway. It flew nice for just scale flight. I wish i could have really opened it up, but i also didn't want to buy it. So i couldn't crash! Most i could do was some aggressive pitch pumps and bank turning circles in the small open area available.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
The 130X is reportedly more durable and less likely to strip tail gears.
Yeah you're right they don't strip gears, they only round the D holes.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
Yeah you're right they don't strip gears, they only round the D holes.
Now that i can believe.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:52 AM
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Okay, today i took to trying to tune the V120D05CS08 up a little better since the V120D02S is grounded for the moment with it's first broken part in forever. It was windy and the wind was blowing at my back, which I'm not used to at all. I really have not been flying the d05 a lot because all of the 850-950 mAh packs have gone bad. They don't ever seem to last long before they degrade to garbage. Because the batteries were basically shot and i couldn't even get a solid minute out of them. I stopped flying the D05 half way though tuning for the KDBB blades. So i left the pitch off from zero @ neutral and i had the cyclic ext. turned way up. I only managed to get 2 flights in before i crashed and couldn't field swap the sheer pin with the tools i had. So i should have probably just landed and made adjustments then flew a few flights that way.. Oh well, no harm done to the heli and i got two flights before i had to take it home and fix it.

Here is the footage, the second flight would have probably been better if i turned down the cyclic ext before the flight. Once i had the pitch set correctly it was flipping and rolling much better. But i ended up thumbing it into the ground. these little things really can flip and loose control quite fast compared to a bigger heli!

V120D05CS08 3D flight too much + pitch (3 min 35 sec)


V120D05CS08 3D flight too much cyclic ext (0 min 0 sec)



The one EXCELLENT thing i will say about the V120D02S, the fullriver batteries they use are CRAZY good. The original battery i got with my D02S still works great. Not as good as newer ones but it still can do 3D for a good 2.5-3 mintues. Which is great considering a new battery will give a solid 3+ minutes. I'm sure if i get a smaller pinion i could probably bring those flight times up some and not really loose any performance. The stock pinion on the 215 motor is a little excessive on HS. I think it helps with the wind though, so I'll probably leave it this way.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I only managed to get 2 flights in before i crashed and couldn't field swap the sheer pin with the tools i had.
I really which I could switch the pin on the field, but you need to unscrew the 4 skid screws, and use a paperclip to get rid of the part left inside, put the new pin with pliers and re-screw ... This is a 3 min task at home, but on the field, to much chances to loose a screw
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ju204 View Post
I really which I could switch the pin on the field, but you need to unscrew the 4 skid screws, and use a paperclip to get rid of the part left inside, put the new pin with pliers and re-screw ... This is a 3 min task at home, but on the field, to much chances to loose a screw
Actually i keep a length of copper wire and i use a pin to push she old one out without removing the skids most of the time. If i'm lucky it will just fall out once i line the gear back up. But sometimes it gets wrapped up under the gear. In this case the gear and skids usually has to be pulled off like you explained. Otherwise i push the new copper wire through the empty hole. Use a small screw driver to bend the tip over. A pair of wire sheers to cut the other end. Then i just use the screw driver to bend the opposite end in the opposite direction. All through the bottom of the skid. But it just does not always work out, like this last time. Typically i have about 4 heli with me anyway, so it's no big deal if one can't be flown anymore. But this heli has honestly been kind of shelfed for too long and i wanted to keep flying and making adjustments to get it tuned better.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:57 PM
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Joined May 2011
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The stock motor in my V120D02s burned up on me so I ordered a new one from WOW. The new one came in with a bent or warpped head on top so it was binding on one side. I could pry it up with a flat screw driver and get it to fly but then when it got hot it would get tight and bind again. This was just a factory defective part so oh well, I had to order yet another motor. This time I sprung for the 215-T. I just put it in and man it has awsome fast head speed. It's long past dark outside so I did a quicky hover outside in my driveway under the lights. Man I can't wait to get this rocket out for some test flights. I should be able to really loop well now and have much more hang time when doing tricks. I have another V120D02s with the stock motor and at times I bog the motor doing loops and flips.
I have this same motor on my V120D05 but the gearing on this D02s is a bit different. I pulled the pinion off the failed motor and used it on this new one so the gearing meshes up perfectly. My V120D05 never bogs with the 215-T so I expect the same awsome performace out of this new one.
Anway, just can't wait to get her out and see how fast it goes now.

JU204.....don't be afraid to change the sheer pin in the field. I carry a small towel I roll out and work over in case I drop any screws. Like Integrity, I have a roll of copper wire I use for sheer pins. This has saves countless amounts of gears. I can't even recall the last time I stripped any gears in a crash. It the crash is light enough and I hit the throttle hold the wire will not bread and I can pick it up and keep flying. If the the crash is harder or I can't get the throttle hold fast enough then the wire sheers off and saves the day.
Like you I have to pull the skids off, pull the main gear off, push out the little broken wire with a paper clip, and then put it back together. I think I can do it blind folded now.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:31 PM
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Taiwan
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Originally Posted by hawk01 View Post
hi ej189,

as always amazing flying you do! are you still using the stock ESC with the Xtreme Spin motor? if not, then what esc are you using and is it plug and play for both aftermarket esc and motor?

also, what tail clutch are you using? did you glue the A and B gears to the torque tube now that you have a tail clutch?
Yes, all my 3 V120D02S using stock ESC and batteries.
The yellow bird equipped with Spin motor and 10T pinon.
The green bird still the stock motor and pinon but rewired.
The angry bird is no brand motor with 9T pinon.

All they have 130X blades, all lightened weight, and all can fly like my video of the yellow bird.

The cheapest way is rewired the stock motor with 0.3mm for 7 turns to get more power. Using 130X blades, diy canopy, replace tail fin with a carbon rod, that can reduce about 5 gram. That is what my green bird has done (except a metal tube for tail driving).

If there above are too serious, just using 130X blades is a easy way to get performance up. Forget about powerful pumping or so, high speed cyclic can do many 3D aerobatic well.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Actually i keep a length of copper wire and i use a pin to push she old one out without removing the skids most of the time. If i'm lucky it will just fall out once i line the gear back up. But sometimes it gets wrapped up under the gear. In this case the gear and skids usually has to be pulled off like you explained. Otherwise i push the new copper wire through the empty hole. Use a small screw driver to bend the tip over. A pair of wire sheers to cut the other end. Then i just use the screw driver to bend the opposite end in the opposite direction. All through the bottom of the skid. But it just does not always work out, like this last time. Typically i have about 4 heli with me anyway, so it's no big deal if one can't be flown anymore. But this heli has honestly been kind of shelfed for too long and i wanted to keep flying and making adjustments to get it tuned better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis MCH View Post
JU204.....don't be afraid to change the sheer pin in the field. I carry a small towel I roll out and work over in case I drop any screws. Like Integrity, I have a roll of copper wire I use for sheer pins. This has saves countless amounts of gears. I can't even recall the last time I stripped any gears in a crash. It the crash is light enough and I hit the throttle hold the wire will not bread and I can pick it up and keep flying. If the the crash is harder or I can't get the throttle hold fast enough then the wire sheers off and saves the day.
Like you I have to pull the skids off, pull the main gear off, push out the little broken wire with a paper clip, and then put it back together. I think I can do it blind folded now.
I currently use paper clips as pin, they are pretty hard to ply. So I'll move to copper, hoping this will ease the maintenance on the field, avoiding to remove the skid.
The tower is actually a very good idea!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:24 AM
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Indonesia, Jakarta Capital Region, Jakarta
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Originally Posted by ej189 View Post
Yes, all my 3 V120D02S using stock ESC and batteries.
The yellow bird equipped with Spin motor and 10T pinon.
The green bird still the stock motor and pinon but rewired.
The angry bird is no brand motor with 9T pinon.

All they have 130X blades, all lightened weight, and all can fly like my video of the yellow bird.

The cheapest way is rewired the stock motor with 0.3mm for 7 turns to get more power. Using 130X blades, diy canopy, replace tail fin with a carbon rod, that can reduce about 5 gram. That is what my green bird has done (except a metal tube for tail driving).

If there above are too serious, just using 130X blades is a easy way to get performance up. Forget about powerful pumping or so, high speed cyclic can do many 3D aerobatic well.
which blade 130x main blade did you use?the high performance one or the fast flight one?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:35 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by Grant Litmanen View Post
Whenever you found some gap between the B gear and the bearing, pull out the tail boom a little to fill it! Especially after you modifying the B gear.
And also drip some CA on torque tube then assemble the B gear at the first time to prevent the notorious D hole round. Clean the redundant CA by a sharp knife after assembly.
What kind of CA are you talking about? And does this procedure now make the A gear the weak link in the chain? I want to prevent this from happening so easily, but don't want to make matters more complicated. I just got new gears in the mail. (Never found that stupid thing on the floor)

Thanks for your help!
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