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Old Sep 30, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sharonx View Post
can someone upload Devo DFuse upgrading tool cause walkera.com is down.
Thanks
Sharon
http://deviationtx.com/ look here Sharon
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Samuel07 View Post
http://deviationtx.com/ look here Sharon
I looked but there is no DFuse tool link there
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Travis MCH View Post
OK, that's it.....I'm done with the "new" 6 axis RX and swapped it back to the stock 3 axis RX.

I was curious so I tried it out for a month or so. I concluded that it caused more crashes than anything else. I have two V120D05's with the RX2622 and just recently got another V120D02s from "Indoorheli". I'm not that good of a flyer but I can do flips, rolls and loops. I like to fly fast circuits with stall turns and into steep dives. I have recently got to the point where I can fly many packs without crashing on any of my 3 axis helis. I can't make it through one pack with the 6 axis without crashing. The heli just want do what I want it to do. I fights me all the way and no matter how much I tune or tweak the gyro pot it does not help. After this last crash on Saturday I had enough of it and changed the RX back over to the 3 axis 2622.

If anyone is interested in this 6 axis RX I'll mail it out for $40.

I suppose anyone just learning to fly or someone who likes to fly 3D in one spot but not move around too much the 6 axis would be fine. For me it didn't go well.

I think it would be really cool if the 6 axis worked in normal mode only. It would come in handy on take offs and landings but as soon as you flip into stunt 1 it would change back to 3 axis. Another thing I noticed is the 6 axis does not like a lot of wind. Since it constantly wants to be level any sort of high wind makes it buck all around. I was flying inbetween storms on Saturday with black clouds and rain in the near distance. The wind was probably gusting around 20 to 25 MPH at times. I could not control the 6 axis very well but took out the V120 with 3 axis and had no problem with the wind.
Just my observation.
I agree with you 101%. Any one wants to do 3D and fast forward flights, the 6 axis is just not a good one. It could cause (uncontrolled) crashes with the 6 axis. Someone who wants to do (stationary) 3D, the 6 axis works OK. But go fly fast & 3D it, I have yet to see one without the heli going crazy :rolleyes
But it could also be a hit or miss, some Rx/Gyro units don't have the issues. Mine was 2 out of 2 120 that I got would also crash if I fly aggressively.

I have two 6axis 120s, I just can't do it.
I purchased & use 3 axis on my other one 120.
Any one who wants one of my 6axis Rx, $40 shipped to USA/paypal/PM me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis MCH View Post
Is anyone really good at large loops?
I can get up some speed and then go into a large curved climb and then flip over at the top. I just can't seem to get the second part down smooth. As soon as the heli turns over it's hard to keep it from just flipping over really quickly and then loosing speed. What's the trick?!
120 stock motor is just not enough, IMO .


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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
It seems that each gyro is different as it leaves the Walkera factory. Although I have to self-correction with the Master CP, other have not seen it. I believe Spyro37 was able to correct the problem you had by increasing gain.
Yes, I increased the AIL/ELEV gain and it helped a lot on my FFF (only), but did not totally fixed the other issue, which is FFF to 3D transition. The 6 axis gyro will "kick-in" , then, into a crash. I love flying continous FF, sports flying and mild 3D. The 6axis is not very safe if flying in public with that kind of flying IMO. Recovery is tough as well due to power is just enough, but may be not enough to get out of trouble.

Strange thing is, my Master CP flies really well & the 6 axis never interferes with my flying at all. As seen on Manuel's Video, he was flying continouos 3D and FF (without the heli self correcting then pitch-up like the 120).

So you might be also right regarding the 6axis are "tuned differently" when it leaves the factory. The only question is, "what is the total fix for it?". If only they have a live technical support, it makes a difference in the world.

My experience with 6 axis is, if it is too much trouble, adjust the Ail/Elev gain pot to "+". This adjustment does not 100% fix the issue. it only fixed the straight FF. I still have to slow down (or nose it down) before any maneuvers from a FFF. Too much + pot adjustment makes the heli more difficult to control, more so flying 3D.

- Spyro
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by flohio117 View Post
There easy just get fwd speed then as you start to pull back on yor stick to initiate the loop lower your collective slip so that by the time your almost flipped over say about 110 degrees you should be starting to slowly put in some negative pitch gently and slowly increase as much as desired to keep your hang time as long as you want. It's not hard my v120 is upgraded with the TA215 so I'm not sure if you need more power if your using the stock motor. Oh I also use the stock walkera foamy main blades instead of the stock v120 plastic blades because there 2 grams a piece lighter than the stock plastic blades. Also the plastic blades make you strip servos all the time. I hope this helps.
Hi flohio, the foamy blades you talk about, are they the ones of the 4g6? In case they are, how do you balance or track them? I got a couple of them also for the same reason (reducing those 2 grams of weight) but my heli started wobbling, and when I replaced the blades back for the stock ones it just stopped wobbling again. In case they are not the 4g6 ones, which are those blades? Thanks in advance ;-)
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by alfmateos View Post
Hi flohio, the foamy blades you talk about, are they the ones of the 4g6? In case they are, how do you balance or track them? I got a couple of them also for the same reason (reducing those 2 grams of weight) but my heli started wobbling, and when I replaced the blades back for the stock ones it just stopped wobbling again. In case they are not the 4g6 ones, which are those blades? Thanks in advance ;-)
Yeah I'm pretty sure there just the regular 4g6 blades there just the foamy white and red or red and white blades. I normally just put them on the heli and track them and adjust the pitch links to get them a perfect disc. You might want to turn your gain down or make sure none of your shafts are bent to get that wobble out. I personally don't like the stock blades. All they do is cause more damage to the heli. It's easier to change out blades rather than changing out servos and shafts.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyro37 View Post



Yes, I increased the AIL/ELEV gain and it helped a lot on my FFF (only), but did not totally fixed the other issue, which is FFF to 3D transition. The 6 axis gyro will "kick-in" , then, into a crash. I love flying continous FF, sports flying and mild 3D. The 6axis is not very safe if flying in public with that kind of flying IMO. Recovery is tough as well due to power is just enough, but may be not enough to get out of trouble.

Strange thing is, my Master CP flies really well & the 6 axis never interferes with my flying at all. As seen on Manuel's Video, he was flying continouos 3D and FF (without the heli self correcting then pitch-up like the 120).

So you might be also right regarding the 6axis are "tuned differently" when it leaves the factory. The only question is, "what is the total fix for it?". If only they have a live technical support, it makes a difference in the world.

My experience with 6 axis is, if it is too much trouble, adjust the Ail/Elev gain pot to "+". This adjustment does not 100% fix the issue. it only fixed the straight FF. I still have to slow down (or nose it down) before any maneuvers from a FFF. Too much + pot adjustment makes the heli more difficult to control, more so flying 3D.

- Spyro
Usually, you have to decrease the gain if you want less gyro compensation. I have to add that my 6 axis is better at sports flying in FFF as well. It is just more locked in throughout. If I let my hands go, the heli will go on ahead. If it is banked, it will remain banked at the same angle. Whereas the Master CP will come to a stop quickly and may even go backwards if the gyro over compensates.

My camera is not working properly right now but I will try to put up a picture of my pot settings later today. I have to point out that mine was bought as an individual receiver and not as part of a whole heli.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 09:54 PM
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Okay, so here is todays 3 or so flights i managed to squeeze in today. It was too windy when i first went out in the afternoon. That is the last section of the video. In that section of the video the "A" gear finds it's way loose from the tail drive shaft and the whole heli turns into a pin wheel or throwing star looking object! The first two flights on the video are later on before it got dark. Still really windy though.

I attempted do a bunch of loops. I don't think it gets too much better than these. They are pretty sloppy But i don't the heli can do much better because of the lack of mass to produce consistent momentum around the apogee. Like i said, the wind can be used to accelerate you around the apogee for cleaner loops. But today the wind was blowing from a direction that made the orientations more complected for me, compared to what I'm used to.

V120D02S-Pro - Loops, Inverted flight, Then tail loss fail (8 min 15 sec)
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Usually, you have to decrease the gain if you want less gyro compensation. I have to add that my 6 axis is better at sports flying in FFF as well. It is just more locked in throughout. If I let my hands go, the heli will go on ahead. If it is banked, it will remain banked at the same angle. Whereas the Master CP will come to a stop quickly and may even go backwards if the gyro over compensates.

My camera is not working properly right now but I will try to put up a picture of my pot settings later today. I have to point out that mine was bought as an individual receiver and not as part of a whole heli.
LOL, your Master CP is same description I mentioned in the past. The heli sometimes like it hit an invisible wall!
I wonder if you could trade the gyro back from your vendor.

With my two 120s, when both had the 6 axis gyros, the pot settings were not the same.
My second 120 flew much better but the 6 axis would still interfere with the way I fly.
The first 120 had so much issues. I marked the original pot settings with a fine tip marker before messing around with it. I did both (increase and decrease) gain adjustments with little increments.
From the original "marking", I ended up with about 2 degree clockwise for best result.
I tried adjusting CC 2degree at a time, then fly, the "effect" gets worse & worse as I keep adjusting. I wonder if less gain makes it difficult to fight the other 3axis (accelerometer) which has a mind of it's own. Increasing the gain "overcomes" the other smart 3 axis (which is the Accelerometer).
I myself is confused with the technology. I wish there is more technical solution to it rather than "Hey, this is a great technology, & it comes with it, bye..." That's really nice, but what if it doesn't work?

Please post if you find any answer & solution to your Master CP. I'm so interested on how to fix/tune the extra free 3axis.

- Spyro
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyro37 View Post
"Hey, this is a great technology, & it comes with it, bye..." That's really nice, but what if it doesn't work?

- Spyro
I don't even think their documentation would have that good of a grasp on the English language. Since a majority of their customer base seems to be english speaking. One would think they might higher a superior bilingual to wright their manuals. But they obviously don't. I hope at least the "NEW" version manuals were better than last years.

I think your on to something there though. The Accelerometers work very different from regular gyros. I always suspected that they would be fighting each other in some way. Because i cannot see any way to get them to communicate and cross talk their controls and come up with a medium between them without a whole separate computer orchestrating them all. Perhaps that is what is going on, but i would think it would take up more space. So i think you got it right. The later 3 axis probably attempts to override the standard 3 axis gyro. But what i can't figure out is why there seems to be such a varying opinion on the performance. It must boil down to flight style or random differences in each RX.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
The Accelerometers work very different from regular gyros. I always suspected that they would be fighting each other in some way. Because i cannot see any way to get them to communicate and cross talk their controls and come up with a medium between them without a whole separate computer orchestrating them all. Perhaps that is what is going on, but i would think it would take up more space. So i think you got it right. The later 3 axis probably attempts to override the standard 3 axis gyro. But what i can't figure out is why there seems to be such a varying opinion on the performance. It must boil down to flight style or random differences in each RX.
Accelerometers are actually very easy to integrate in a flying solution. Basically they return a reference value when aircraft isn't moving, let's say zero. When you have movement they obviously return some other values, and it's the firmware's job to decide what to do. You have some cases:

1. Value = zeo -> do nothing
2. Value > 0 <= some calibrated value X -> this means drift, compensate.
3. Value > X -> commanded movement, do not compensate.

The only complicated algorithm is compensation.

In reality is it a bit more complicated, as you can integrate TX inputs and disable drift compensation on command, i.e. ELE channel > some value Y, disable compensation on purpose.

I don't see this invisible wall or over compensation when I do FFF. My firmware looks like it's the first version as it doesn't have telemetry. Will update once I get my UP02 thingie.

IMO if Walkera would decide to open-source their firmware we would have the best flying helis around.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
I don't see this invisible wall or over compensation when I do FFF. My firmware looks like it's the first version as it doesn't have telemetry. Will update once I get my UP02 thingie.

IMO if Walkera would decide to open-source their firmware we would have the best flying helis around.

* End User has to activate the telemetry themselves (helis sold overseas) due to country's regulations, as I was told by EHirobo (HK vendor). As mentioned in the thread, "Due country's regulations/restrictions, Walkera did not obtain certification for the telemetry" (yet). So you have to "patch" the Rx yourself if you want the telemetry function activated.

My Master CP has the 6 axis. I can do any flying I'd want to and the 6 axis never interferes with my flying. And I could tell (during FFF) that the Rx has that 6 axis technology. I could see with my eyes that it's trying to constantly level BUT, I myself has to do it @ full speed, really close in front of me and watch it closely. Flyers next to me will not notice it at all. I will have to warn them to be able to witness it. At no instance it ever hit an "invisible wall" to this point. The issue is known. Zadaw's Master CP has that 6 axis effect on his but not with mine.

1.I wish there is a way to turn it off or on (from 6 to 3 axis) either by hardware switch or USB programability, like you mentioned, "open source".
2. If there is a way to tune it (Rx pots) by end user, wish it's in the manual, even if it is written in Chinglish
3. Maybe vendors can help & relay the issue to Walkera regarding this 6 axis issue on some helis, to make the consumers happy

Though, in all honesty, this flybarless 6 axis gyro is awesome, if it's tuned right, just like my Master CP.
And if they don't, you're on your own and just have to deal with it.

- Spyro
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:01 AM
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Here is a picture of my pot settings on the 6 axis V120D02S. I do not feel any compensation in FFF. In fact I feel that it is much more locked in throughout. It also feels a bit better doing with mild stationary 3D. The big difference is in slow moving mild continuous, especially rolling upright to inverted or vice versa. It just has a much smoother feel than the 3 axis gyro.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:27 AM
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litle help what you think better

http://www.hobbypartz.com/thac6smbachw.html

http://www.hobbypartz.com/73p-ac680-accharger.html
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Here is a picture of my pot settings on the 6 axis V120D02S. I do not feel any compensation in FFF. In fact I feel that it is much more locked in throughout. It also feels a bit better doing with mild stationary 3D. The big difference is in slow moving mild continuous, especially rolling upright to inverted or vice versa. It just has a much smoother feel than the 3 axis gyro.
Pretty close with mine...
But mine reacts like your Master CP.
I can't trust someone fly it, if he is not aware of how it will react, and doesn't have enough altitude, the heli could suddenly stop and crash. The heli is very stable flying slow. So it's good learning to fly CP. Aggressive flying is not advisable with both my 6 axis. Nevertheless, one of them has been replaced with the 3 axis Rx. The 3 axis is not as stable hovering (such as keeping it in a 5'X5' area). The 6 axis could manage to hover still in a tight space, keeping itself balanced with ease.
The 3 axis may crash due to pilot error. My 6 axis crashes (mostly) because of that technology, so I just fly it easy, or at least keep it high.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Here is a picture of my pot settings on the 6 axis V120D02S. I do not feel any compensation in FFF. In fact I feel that it is much more locked in throughout. It also feels a bit better doing with mild stationary 3D. The big difference is in slow moving mild continuous, especially rolling upright to inverted or vice versa. It just has a much smoother feel than the 3 axis gyro.

Whats the 2 pin Aux socket used for on this RX. Is it anyhting like the LED socket that I've heard of on the ladybird - Which can be toggled on/off using the gear swtich on the TX.
What I wanted to do is use it to activate an electro magnet to pick up and drop off wire objects for indoor flying in the winter.
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