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Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:16 AM
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dgibbons's Avatar
United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Jul 2011
570 Posts
I received the 8t pinions in yesterdays mail. I've mounted one on the spin & hp08s motor. I'm hoping to get some flights in after work today. The spin motor has been less than great with the 10t pinion. (I'm fairly certain that my old tired batteries are also to blame)

Martin,
The tail on my 120 seems to weathervane in backwards flight as well.

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Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
That is the same reason I want to try the 8T, for less bogging, specially after 2 minutes of flight, if that motor had enough power, i would run the 10T on it.

Don't worry, I like high head speed, I run 2550rpm governed on a 560mm bladed 600, and 2450gov rpm on another one with 640mm blades, let me tell you that it's crazy head speed, I have a 450pro on 6s also, but only 3300 gov rpm.

On to the V120, is there a way to avoid the tail to always blow out in backward flight? It looks like there gyro is not up to the task, or a is better/faster servo can be used?

Flying sideway very fast and the tail hold well, so that tell me that there is no lack of thrust.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 04:14 PM
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alfmateos's Avatar
Spain, Madrid, M
Joined May 2012
87 Posts
Nine Eagles 180 3D blades for v120d02s or 130X blades?

Hi folks, do you think that Nine eagles 180 3D blades could be also año alternative for stock ones? I'm searching fast cyclic response and light weight, in order to fly with stock motor and stock lipos. I don't know if somebody has tested both the 180 ones and the 130X ones.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 06:07 PM
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IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,324 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgibbons View Post
I received the 8t pinions in yesterdays mail. I've mounted one on the spin & hp08s motor. I'm hoping to get some flights in after work today. The spin motor has been less than great with the 10t pinion. (I'm fairly certain that my old tired batteries are also to blame)

Martin,
The tail on my 120 seems to weathervane in backwards flight as well.
Yeah, batteries are obvious but, no the spin motor lacks authority. It's too small and magnetic poles are not strong enough, IMO for hard 3d and pumping. But it will fly the heli nice and smooth. Let me know how the smaller pinion works out. The spin seemed to work better on my D05 with a 13T pinion over the stock, uhm.... 15T? pinion. So thats where it stayed, but the 215 was still superior on the D05. I just have it this way so both helis will fly. If you find the 8T is viable i might give it a shot at swapping them out. I do have a 9T but i can't tell if it's really a 0.4 or 0.3T. It works, but seems a little odd. It's very close, it just looks so small compared to the 10T.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 06:14 PM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfmateos View Post
Hi folks, do you think that Nine eagles 180 3D blades could be also año alternative for stock ones? I'm searching fast cyclic response and light weight, in order to fly with stock motor and stock lipos. I don't know if somebody has tested both the 180 ones and the 130X ones.
I am using the white Solo Pro 180D blades exclusively now. The main reason is that it makes the heli much easier to see, especially with inverted flight. I think the cyclic response is slightly better. However, there seems to be an increased risk of the rudder push rod being struck off, and damage to the head in a crash. However, I think the great improvement in visibility is well worth it.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:43 PM
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United States, OR, Vernonia
Joined Dec 2004
126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I am using the white Solo Pro 180D blades exclusively now. The main reason is that it makes the heli much easier to see, especially with inverted flight. I think the cyclic response is slightly better. However, there seems to be an increased risk of the rudder push rod being struck off, and damage to the head in a crash. However, I think the great improvement in visibility is well worth it.
You havent turned the rudder control upside dwon so that is dont get blown off everytime you crash??
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:32 PM
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ej189's Avatar
Taiwan
Joined Oct 2007
132 Posts
Had done some test in flight time and rolls, looks easy and no problem on it.
My 7 months old of stock motor, esc, and battery can still do a long flight including some hard pitched works. But not recommend you flying such a long time drained the battery to 3.56V like me, though I often done like this and all the stock batteries are still good enough.

V120D02S Stock Power For A Long Flight (7 min 35 sec)


I want to say that the flight time should exceed 5 min in normal condition or there must be something bad on it. Electrical resistance can feel the heat after flight, and physical frictions can feel by turning it on your hand. Do some check before blame it.

Also the rolls.
I think a slow right roll will need more right air flow from the tail pitch to hold the tail, adding extra pitch in rolling will make it worse especially for a weak power heli. If your flight time is not good enough then you may insufficient in power to do right roll but easier in left roll.

Another thing is well setting the tail pitch.
Recently I like to set tail pitch left equal to right because in locking mod the gyro may lean to the max pitch, a tail pitch usually exceed efficient attack angle, so if left and right pitch not equaled then one direction may over pitched to reduce thrust at extreme operation.

A balanced tail pitch setting also helps in backward flight that you can fly a little bit faster (but still limited) in backward flight in my experience.

About pirouette there is two things you must checking first, Rx in good leveled and tail boom is hard enough not twisted.
I often checking Rx in good leveled by looking the pc board not the soft shell. If the tail boom can twist a bit by hand that it will twist and changing direction of air flow when adding tail pitch. At last, moving CG a little bit backward to the main shaft, that will balance the drift of CW and CCW in pirouette.

The blades of 130X are well balanced in weight and durability. The weight make huge different to me that I must reduce D/R from 125% to 100% and TRVADJ from 150% to 100% and still a little bit faster in cyclic control. The orange blades are very good in visibility.

Oh, it take me so much time to write in English and wishing you can understand what I am talking at.
There are so many things to concern about the heli, but I rather give you hint not the detailed solution that a global thing may differ in individual case.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 03:43 AM
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alfmateos's Avatar
Spain, Madrid, M
Joined May 2012
87 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ej189 View Post
Had done some test in flight time and rolls, looks easy and no problem on it.
My 7 months old of stock motor, esc, and battery can still do a long flight including some hard pitched works. But not recommend you flying such a long time drained the battery to 3.56V like me, though I often done like this and all the stock batteries are still good enough.

I want to say that the flight time should exceed 5 min in normal condition or there must be something bad on it. Electrical resistance can feel the heat after flight, and physical frictions can feel by turning it on your hand. Do some check before blame it.

Also the rolls.
I think a slow right roll will need more right air flow from the tail pitch to hold the tail, adding extra pitch in rolling will make it worse especially for a weak power heli. If your flight time is not good enough then you may insufficient in power to do right roll but easier in left roll.

Another thing is well setting the tail pitch.
Recently I like to set tail pitch left equal to right because in locking mod the gyro may lean to the max pitch, a tail pitch usually exceed efficient attack angle, so if left and right pitch not equaled then one direction may over pitched to reduce thrust at extreme operation.

A balanced tail pitch setting also helps in backward flight that you can fly a little bit faster (but still limited) in backward flight in my experience.

About pirouette there is two things you must checking first, Rx in good leveled and tail boom is hard enough not twisted.
I often checking Rx in good leveled by looking the pc board not the soft shell. If the tail boom can twist a bit by hand that it will twist and changing direction of air flow when adding tail pitch. At last, moving CG a little bit backward to the main shaft, that will balance the drift of CW and CCW in pirouette.

The blades of 130X are well balanced in weight and durability. The weight make huge different to me that I must reduce D/R from 125% to 100% and TRVADJ from 150% to 100% and still a little bit faster in cyclic control. The orange blades are very good in visibility.

Oh, it take me so much time to write in English and wishing you can understand what I am talking at.
There are so many things to concern about the heli, but I rather give you hint not the detailed solution that a global thing may differ in individual case.
Thanks a lot for your detailed explanations and for sharing your improvements. I can tell you that I am learning a lot with your innovations, and also having fun with them. And your Angry Bird canopy, that is simply awesome, and funny.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:09 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,318 Posts
I have flown 12 packs with the 6 axis RX-2636. Honestly, it did not feel much different than the 3 axis gyro. However, it was noticeably more stable and smooth, especially with hovering and slow flight. I flew a large number of inverted circuits that felt smoother and more precise than before. In particular, it was easier to maintain a certain altitude during the circuits.

At no point did I feel any significant self-correction. The heli remained banked during turns and there was no pitching up or ballooning whatsoever. It gave me enough confidence to fly upright FFF circuits and upright nose-in hovers again. That is since I have flown hundreds of packs of inverted flight in the past months. However, I must add that the conditions were unusually calm these past few days. Also, I don't have any flying site that is large enough for me to fly long range and full blast FFF,



Quote:
Originally Posted by ej189 View Post

Oh, it take me so much time to write in English and wishing you can understand what I am talking at.
There are so many things to concern about the heli, but I rather give you hint not the detailed solution that a global thing may differ in individual case.
I am surprised you raised this issue. I am sure nobody will have any problem with your English. Your input is very much appreciated over here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyrvs1 View Post
You havent turned the rudder control upside dwon so that is dont get blown off everytime you crash??
I am aware of this mod and will look into it. The problem is manageable for me at the moment as the rudder push rod only comes off after a crash. However, others have reported it being struck off during a hard move.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:26 AM
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Joined Jun 2011
572 Posts
has anyone tried using the stabiliser set from 4g6? It holds the rod tighter and i had many crashes with this stabiliser set and had never lost a single rod ever since. the rod would bent when it get striked by the blades though.... just bent it back.... =p hehe
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Joined Jan 2012
616 Posts
Question about ESC and why it wears out

After I had two short-lived brownouts last week with my D02S over a parking lot (), I ordered a replacement ESC and installed it last night. When I think about it, I had several other clues over the past month or so that something might not be ripe with my original ESC from the March/April timeframe:
  • Several instances where the motor stuttered a bit while trying to start
  • At least once I tried to lift off, but the motor never started - had to rebind to get it going

Motor is still original.

What a difference. I only did test hovers indoors last night, but headspeed was increased and she responded a lot more quickly to pitch changes (no doubt the higher HS).

Now the question - what on an ESC can actually wear out over time? I've seen references to a "BEC" component - is that the analog controller for the battery? I would think the digital circuit(s) would never wear out.

I'm now convinced that an ESC is a regular maintenance item - replace every 4-6 months if you fly one or more packs per day. I was about to replace the motor too, but I think I'm good on that.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:20 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,318 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
has anyone tried using the stabiliser set from 4g6? It holds the rod tighter and i had many crashes with this stabiliser set and had never lost a single rod ever since. the rod would bent when it get striked by the blades though.... just bent it back.... =p hehe
I have used the 4g6 stabilized set before and it seems to be more durable. However, it is getting hard to get spares for the 4g6 now since I buy from my LHS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalGolem View Post
After I had two short-lived brownouts last week with my D02S over a parking lot (), I ordered a replacement ESC and installed it last night. When I think about it, I had several other clues over the past month or so that something might not be ripe with my original ESC from the March/April timeframe:
  • Several instances where the motor stuttered a bit while trying to start
  • At least once I tried to lift off, but the motor never started - had to rebind to get it going

Motor is still original.

What a difference. I only did test hovers indoors last night, but headspeed was increased and she responded a lot more quickly to pitch changes (no doubt the higher HS).

Now the question - what on an ESC can actually wear out over time? I've seen references to a "BEC" component - is that the analog controller for the battery? I would think the digital circuit(s) would never wear out.

I'm now convinced that an ESC is a regular maintenance item - replace every 4-6 months if you fly one or more packs per day. I was about to replace the motor too, but I think I'm good on that.
I have been having similar problems to you but I don't think it has got anything to do with the ESC. For a start, the ESC was completely new. Also, the problems disappear when I changed receivers.

If it were due to power loss, your receiver should not bind again. My hunch is that there is something wrong with your receiver.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 02:30 PM
Heli addicted.
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Joined Jan 2012
232 Posts
New Esc, battery and motor...The heli is not diving any more during backflips and climbs fast.
1 thing i ve noticed with the new esc is that the beep sound during bind is 10 times louder than the old esc.Maybe the low sound level is sign that the esc is dying .

Walkera V120D02s -Rebuild with New Esc, battery & motor. (4 min 19 sec)
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 08:57 PM
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Travis MCH's Avatar
United States, TX, New Braunfels
Joined May 2011
489 Posts
Orbital,

I'm with you.......I also think the ESC just wears out over time. You don't always realize the power loss because it happens slowly over time. I too have had the same exact symptoms with spuddering start up, low power and motor shut downs. I'm on my third ESC on the same heli over the last 8 months maybe. When I replace it the helis runs like it's brand new again. I'm not sure if the ESC gets damaged during a crash or is a wear and tear item from normal use but either way they just don't seem to last.
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 04:04 AM
asp
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Spain, CN, Villaverde
Joined Apr 2012
334 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis MCH View Post
Orbital,

I'm with you.......I also think the ESC just wears out over time. You don't always realize the power loss because it happens slowly over time. I too have had the same exact symptoms with spuddering start up, low power and motor shut downs. I'm on my third ESC on the same heli over the last 8 months maybe. When I replace it the helis runs like it's brand new again. I'm not sure if the ESC gets damaged during a crash or is a wear and tear item from normal use but either way they just don't seem to last.
Would it be possible to use a different esc, better quality maybe?
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 01:04 PM
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IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,324 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalGolem View Post
After I had two short-lived brownouts last week with my D02S over a parking lot (), I ordered a replacement ESC and installed it last night. When I think about it, I had several other clues over the past month or so that something might not be ripe with my original ESC from the March/April timeframe:
  • Several instances where the motor stuttered a bit while trying to start
  • At least once I tried to lift off, but the motor never started - had to rebind to get it going

Motor is still original.

What a difference. I only did test hovers indoors last night, but headspeed was increased and she responded a lot more quickly to pitch changes (no doubt the higher HS).

Now the question - what on an ESC can actually wear out over time? I've seen references to a "BEC" component - is that the analog controller for the battery? I would think the digital circuit(s) would never wear out.

I'm now convinced that an ESC is a regular maintenance item - replace every 4-6 months if you fly one or more packs per day. I was about to replace the motor too, but I think I'm good on that.
Well my speculations.. Thermal expansion and cheap alloy metals with poor solder joints. So, over time the heating and cooling effect slow down your effectiveness with the laws of physics, thermal expansion degrades things by expanding and compressing them. In this case quite rapidly and quite repetitiously. Kind of like how computers slow down as they get older from increased internal resistance. Also, without getting too technical. A linear BEC, which is what is generally used in these ESCs are used to regulate the voltage to the servos. Since the input voltage is already 3.7-4.2v from the battery there isn't much regulation needed, probably. But a linear BEC regulates voltage, basically by using heat. So add those things together and over time your ESC will heat up faster and faster each flight. Especially this time of year in the heat outside. The more your fly your packs back-to-back the more exacerbated these effects will become, again, especially in the summer or hot months of the year. Thats my thoughts.

My v120d02s is still using the original ESC from when i bought it back in march. It feels weak, like i should have replaced it. But i didn't. I never fly 2 packs without a cooling cycle anymore. But when i'm at the field i have 4 heli to fly. So i switch from one to the other. That isn't always possible. So maybe, just feel your ESC and if it's hot, it's not flight ready. Again, just my 2 cents.
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