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Old Jan 10, 2013, 06:25 AM
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United States, FL, Orange Park
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Thought I'd chime in with some stats, of my CS10 in an extreme aluminum shroud from Mark on a het 2w-25 at 4s 40c 3000. I did some mods to the air frame to improve the flow and wile the output went up the "white noise" went down. Hope to maiden soon!

All Up weight..............1396g (49.28oz)
Bird w/o lipos..............1001g (35.36oz)
4s 40c 3000 lipo...........347g (12.32oz)
3s 450 lipo(on bec).........48g (1.6oz)

Thrust as measured in the video and settling a bit = 1464g (51.64oz), the scale read 1530g (53.97oz) at its' peak. Here's a short vid on how I tested it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3XEhKXIptAE
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 06:36 AM
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Vienna, Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
...One more case for a better housing for high power setups.
that new 12-blade housing should really improve cooling:
- shorter (leaving more of the motor completely exposed to airflow)
- bigger inner diameter, more airflow around the motor bell
- lanrge long slots allow for air exchange around motor bell
that will noticeably bring down temperature...
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mopetista View Post
similar, if a bit lower (ESCs less efficient at partial throttle than WOT, higher losses in all wires and lipo (Ohms resistance rises with Amps squared), but similar.

For me, the question would rather be very mundane: Do I have ESCs which cope with 65A, if not how much bigger / heavier are they (for 40A I use cheap 33g Blue Series ESCs from HK, good 65A ESCs coping with high rpm cost a bit more and also weigh a bit more), AND will my lipos be happy at higher amps, Probably if short WOT burst are all there is, good airflow around the lipos and it will be fine.
So, what lipos you intend to use?
...my 2c...
I'm on 4S 4000mah , 4500mah nano-techs... last i calculated... should be able to take the heat....

my escs are dual hobbywing 80a Pros... I;m sparing no expense on weight hoping i can get some decent thrust out of the power plants.... I'm planning to hit a combined thrust in the excess of 1.5-1.6kg... (I use metrics in my country.)

I;m having difficulty with the pounds unit you guys use... When i wikied it, there seems to be alot of different types of pounds (less the british curreny)... Just to check... 1lb = 0.45kg?

if the hobby king motos won;t suffice... anyone with a good 4s motor to recommend?
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chas650r View Post
and my 2c....... my tests were well under 40 amps on 4's for the2300 w/ good batteries , for whatever reason. not enough power on 4's for me.

and the lower resistance of the higher kv motors (less heat) may offset the losses at part throttle in the esc, fwiw.

chuck.
Thanks...sounds good to me!

I;ve read earlier that the optimal K.V for 4 cell with the changesun 10 blade 70mm is a 2650kv... have yet to find such a motor
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:08 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-BONEZ View Post
I'm on 4S 4000mah , 4500mah nano-techs... last i calculated... should be able to take the heat....

my escs are dual hobbywing 80a Pros... I;m sparing no expense on weight hoping i can get some decent thrust out of the power plants.... I'm planning to hit a combined thrust in the excess of 1.5-1.6kg... (I use metrics in my country.)

I;m having difficulty with the pounds unit you guys use... When i wikied it, there seems to be alot of different types of pounds (less the british curreny)... Just to check... 1lb = 0.45kg?

if the hobby king motos won;t suffice... anyone with a good 4s motor to recommend?
correct , 2.2 pounds / kilo. imo the 2800kv h/k motors are in the correct kv range for 4's , maybe a bit high, but thats what the throttle is for now as far a quality goes, u get what u pay for @ 13bucks. if $ are not the issue they are w/ me , i would have the het 2w25 w/ the 4mm shafts. the kv is correct and the weight at 110grams is good for the mid range power.

chuck.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:01 AM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Hi all

Just got a cs10 in a cylcone power ^special metal ducted housing^ with a cyclone power IR550 2800kv-32. Hooked it up to the test bench and pulled 1570 watts 93 amps on 5s. The amps and watts were rising after 30 seconds WOT. The CC ICE 100 esc was pretty warm too. The temp gun said 130. The battery is a Thunder Power 5s 3300 45c, and was at 100. I also tested using a 4s 3300 30c battery and the watts/amps were also rising WOT. Is this normal when running WOT? I know that throttle management is a going to be a must with this setup. It's going into a PZ Habu 2. It sounds really nice and was balanced.

Cheers

70mm Changesun 10 Blade/Cyclone Power 2800kv (0 min 48 sec)
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by supercollider View Post
... Is this normal when running WOT? I know that throttle management is a going to be a must with this setup. It's going into a PZ Habu 2.
This is not normal... Normally, with the battery under load, the voltage drops and RPM drops as well. This should result in lower amps.

Also, 93amps is probably too much for this motor on 5S even though there is no max amp rating in the specs to rely on. I guess it's worthwhile experimenting to see if the magnets can last.

Did you use heat transfer paste on the motor?

PS. It could be my ears but it sounds like there's some vibration on lower throttle settings.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 07:52 AM
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What numbers did you get with the 4s?
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:14 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
I also tested using a 4s 3300 30c battery and the watts/amps were also rising WOT. Is this normal when running WOT?
I hope you noticed your voltage sag at WOT, a good 4s battery will deliver at least 18.5v when fully charged to 21v full. Yours was sagging down to17v and change, this is why you get climbing amps etc. Need more available battery! imho
The IR of a larger/higher C' pack won't cause the amps to rise as much as a smaller pack. I've been thru many puffers to gain my education of battery power!
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:47 AM
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But I have still never seen Amps/Watts RISE, even on an inadequate battery.
They just get WORSE and worse, faster than a better battery would work at....

So, those volts are LOW..... which means the battery is badly over-taxed. It will not like that... will run hotter (especially as capacity gets depleted to the lower end).... and die an earlier life...
Check the numbers/maths of it.... but for sure it will be not a good result, not adequate.

I haven't seen it, but maybe if your ambient temp is cold/cool, then the battery heated up to become more efficient... thus a bit higher volts, which then raises Amps/Watts too.
It is only a very small increase you are seeing, so that fits in with a possible battery efficiency rise. But that doesn't help anything... it is still badly over-taxed!
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:48 AM
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amps will rise if the lipo was not really warm to begin with. As it heats up, the lipo will have more Volts and Amps (before it sags soon thereafter).
not unusual to have rising Amps in the initial heating-up period - of course you won't have them if you pre-heat lipos...
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:54 AM
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5S 3300 45C = 148 Amps "Capable".. BUT.... obviously not in this case!
It is NOT capable of even maintaining 92Amps. (Not that they EVER do as per the maths of 148Amps suggests.. which is why you AIM for 1.5x what you need)

I guess I have noted that really.....
You can aim for 1.5x what your combo needs at WOT...in low to mid power systems.
But in high end power systems, it is better to have 2x what you 'need'.
So in your case 180Amps (3300 55C or more).
And even more than 2x, because that is really up at the high end of powers! So the multiplier number might even hit 2.5x by that area.... or you can just go by the voltage drop.... if it drops more than 0.5v (something like that, maximum) it is not good.

THEN... your "100 deg" battery... in Fahrenheit I expect, hehe.
If that was early on for that test (it didn't run that long it seems)... wait until LATER in the battery depletion and see what happens!! LOL
Heat rises non-linearly as the battery depletes - more rapidly, fast. I would expect that thing will be badly puffed..... smoking hot!
But that is the sort of stuff you have to set up and TEST... to see what truly happens, before frying a battery or plane! And work out your true battery requirements from that.

Even the 'numbers' before testing... CS10... 2800kv.... 5S.... show it is going to be a HIGH power sytem! IF the motor can drive that..... a smaller motor would die itself... a better motor WILL drive it all and then the BATTERY is the potential weak link. So you could predict needs for a very good battery right away (with experience).

And then the result numbers..... yep..... plain as day....
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopetista View Post
amps will rise if the lipo was not really warm to begin with. As it heats up, the lipo will have more Volts and Amps (before it sags soon thereafter).
not unusual to have rising Amps in the initial heating-up period - of course you won't have them if you pre-heat lipos...

+1.... Come to think of it, it looks like the voltage drops too much at the beginning but as the lipo warms, the voltage stabilzes and the the amps go up.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 09:18 AM
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It's not unusual for a stressed lipo to rise in voltage as it discharges. It means you're on the ragged edge.

Ignore the label "C" rating. If you're batt's doing this, it's probably not happy. The F5B/D guys routine do this, but they're happy abusing their gear. Are you?

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Old Jan 11, 2013, 01:42 PM
C.E.R.N. field tester
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United States, NE
Joined Sep 2012
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hi all.

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate them all. Did some more testing and found out the watts/amps will continue to rise (108 amps) untill the CC esc shuts down, about 1 min of WOT. Not a thermal shutdown but the infamous 2 beep fault code, Low Voltage Cutoff. So the lipo will not support this setup WOT. I also tested with another Thunder Power 5s 3850 65c and did the same thing. Yes there is heat paste on the motor and the motor housing/heat sink. I think whats happening is the lipo is getting hot and the IR goes up which makes the watts/amps rise as the voltage goes down. Since the motor and the esc are both constants, the lipo is taking a beating. I use these same lipos on a Habu 1 with the stock motor and they are fine. Will try some more testing on the 4s and see what happens. During mixed throttle everything works fine, it's just WOT where the problems start. And yes PeterVRC I agree, you have to test this out before it goes in a plane. I'll get a 4s test video out soon. Thanks again

cheers
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