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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:37 AM
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Received my ExtremeRC CS10 4S combo today.
Damn sexy piece of gear.
It's going to be awesome seeing and hearing 2 or 3 T45 hawks with CS10's flying in formation.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 07:23 AM
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My ExtremeRC alloy mini-review. LOL

I ran my ExtremeRC Alloy up just before. I guess if I was expecting perfection I was going to be disappointed, LOL.
The rotor shaft looks to be running true on the motor (no rotor fitted). I can only check it visually, and if off centre you usually can see a bit of a blur, but it looks good to me.
All assembled, with the spinner on, it goes nuts! Very bad vibration. Unusable really (in that state). But with the spinner off it is much much better, though still not quite the same as my stock plastic housings end results, which are quite (very?) good. I mean after they are balanced, to my typical so-so level of quality. But it sounds better.....
I still have to 'clock' balance it because I can see the adaptor shaft 'blur up' a bit with the rotor on - so that shows the rotor is the cause of that part of it. So accepting that bit is amiss (rotor balance) for the moment it is no worse (or better) that my typical stock plastic initial setups.

The real major issue is the alloy spinner - which being a pretty much perfect fit on the rotor's 'spinner ridge' means it can't be moved anyway except in rotation, so it sort of has to be as centred as you can get. I tried 'clocking' the spinner but whilst it got a bit better at some point, it was still terrible so I had to run it without a spinner. Until I investigate it more anyway.

I guess that was the bigger aspect of it being a bit 'disappointing'. I was expecting the spinner to be the most likely part to not even be able to be an issue and be perfect. It seemed to me to be pretty much exactly the same as I find in the stock plastic spinners - imbalance and needs clocking or weight. (I run most with no spinner because of this anyway!)

The rotor.... well that little bit of imbalance is par for the course and of course it needs the 'clocking' done, if not static balancing first too - though I thought it came statically, or dynamically, balanced? But maybe not - I forget what I read. I guess if I was expecting that, it is a bit of the disappointment that it didn't all run up dead perfectly as it came.... but if it wasn't even meant to be, then that is fine and that aspect is up to me to complete.

In design, or 'as supplied' terms, I found one quite important issue (in mine anyway).... the spinner countersunk bolt was too long. Even when the shaft adaptor thread ran out, the spinner bolt was still 4mm from tightening the spinner. I tried it in 3 EXRC shaft adaptors (I only have 3) and all were the same issue. So I cut off 5mm and that was ok then.
Also the 2 adaptor shafts that came with the alloy kit had no 'grip hole' for tightening with anything. So I filed flats onto the adaptor shaft (just as I do to the stock ones), which I like that better anyway, as flats give you a rock solid grip method that is never going to go astray - but holes can elongate or even break through (especially as they are so large in the adaptors that do have them).

Seeing I can't mount it yet I could not run it up for power/thrust tests, but it needs the full balancing first anyway. So I will do that in the next day or so.

A good thing was its total weight.....
The EXRC alloy (with spinner fitted) and HET 2W30 was only fractionally heavier than the complete stock fan with either a 380L Inrunner, or XK2850, which are quite similar motor designs to the HET, but are not rated quite as high (Amps). All were in the region of 220g AUW - well 220g for EXRC/HET and 212g for the other two. So the Alloy assembly was pretty well equal weight to the stock plastic assembly anyway! That is a good bonus, just 8g cost to get the rigidity of alloy, and its better cooling.

But I want to see if it (in total with HET) outperforms the stock units with the 380L and XK2850! Because they are $35 and $45 total cost, versus $155!! Of course the Alloy/HET will win... probably in better power output and in lower power input.... but by enough to make it worth it?

I am thinking that it could be only really worth alloy if you are going to push for over 2.0Kg. Possibly a fair bit over 2.0Kg. eg 2.4Kg, 2.5Kg or possibly more??
It is a very nice, flashy, higher quality result than the stock housing for sure, but probably not even a necessary thing to do in more typical low to mid end (majority) 70mm aircraft.

If you want/need alloy - or a more capable CS10 unit - then for sure it is a thing of beauty and quality to do the job.
I could mount mine for display in a case on a mantelpiece, LOL. At least it would be SEEN then, and it looks that hot that it would impress more people that way! hehe (just have a cheaper motor in it for that!)
It kills the Lander unit, mainly because it is far far lighter and still adequate to do its job. The Lander is massive overkill (waste really) - though it is cheaper too. Just too heavy.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 07:42 AM
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Fascinating.....

Thank you, Pete, for a very interesting report. Nicely written, too.

Intriguing to see how it all performs once in use; i.e., how balancing went, how much power consumed/power out, in-flight performance for thrust/sound, etc.

Well done.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 07:56 AM
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I better add a conclusion for the ExtremeRC Alloy unit (came as unit/parts only):

1) The housing is very well designed and made. Exactly, and only, what it needs to be for the job. Thus as light as possible, and strong enough to do it. So this aspect is perfect.

2) The 'screw off' front section is great. Again, something allmost necessary in the best housing design anyway - but would be a BIT of a negative if it did not have that.

3) Does NOT have any cutout for use of an outrunner - which would fit and be usable otherwise. It probably should have had that included as it is quite hard to modify it, in the best way, to do that afterwards. And the cutout required would not bother strength at all really. I guess optimal in strength terms would be two versions, but probably impractical cost and stock wise.
So I guess then there was just a decision to be made... yes, or no. And No was the chosen one. Which means still great for Inrunner users... and totally useless for Outrunner users.

4) Spinner.... hmmm, mine looks to surely be out of balance. But I have another I can test for a reference. If they aren't 'perfect' then that is a notable nuisance. But at least you can 'drill lighten' them to balance them....

5) Shaft adaptor. My 3.17mm one was a slightly loose fit on the HET motor shaft. But I must have got the tightening sequence done quite well as it seems to spin true. It probably would have been better it it WAS the "0.1mm smaller" that the included paper info says. Or.. maybe the HET shaft is wrong, LOL.
It just would be nice to be a tight fit, or a bit too small and you heat it up to fit it.

6) Finish. Excellent workmanship and finish.

7) Cost. Well how do you rate that in 'specialty items'?
A Lander costs about the same, with a motor, but you would need to supply and fit a CS10 rotor... but it weighs a lot more so that moves it away in comparison terms.
Tam has his item(s), but some aspects of that are different enough to make comparison not quite linear either.
The stock fan unit is quite fine up to 2.0Kg or so really.
So I think I will say it is 'correct value for money', for what it is, and what it will benefit you. But only if you 'need' it... to use for a more powerful setup. Otherwise you are "Just buying a shiny overkill item to hide away inside your plane."
Or.... fine if you just have money to spare and like nice shiny toys! Because this shiny thing pretty well beats any other shiny RC thing I have seen. LOL
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:05 AM
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That's why i paid the little bit extra to have i all assembled and balanced.
= one happy customer
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:10 AM
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The instructions I was talking about earlier which are now done, cover the assembly and balancing methods needed with the fan. I have emailed instructions in the past but fact is I have sold maybe one bare fan unit for every 20 assembled units, so it has not been a priority. I will send you a copy via email tomorrow.

I built 3 fans today, two 4s and a 6s, all with 4mm shafts and they all required minimal adjusment of the rotor vs adapter to obtain smooth running. Alloy housings have no give, they do not absorb vibration and they will show any small imbalance that might be quite acceptable with a plastic housing.

The spinners are perfectly machined but the rotors are not perfect moldings, I often run a file on the edge of the spinner seat so as to loosen up the fit and allow the spinner to be rotated with a little force. And yes the spinners often need balancing, if you are running a 2W30 on 6s its getting close to the rotors limits in RPM and it will vibrate badly unless balanced. If you are running it with the intake lip clipped on, remove it, the plastic lip will also accentuate vibration unless its glued permanently, something you dont want to do. Use it only for bench testing balanced fans.

The bolt issue has been addressed, the Taiwanese adapters that are modified and machined were not tapped out deep enough, I have been tapping them out since yesterday so unfortunately yours were not done having been sent out last week before I discovered it. Its a mute point now anyway as I have been discarding 50% of them in every batch, this is why I have changed the fan package to have just one German made adapter of your choosing.

As for the "grip" hole, they are not put into the Taiwanese adapters because you are supposed to use pliers to grip the smooth machined end of the adapter, its done this way on purpose, the hole can be misleading and cause people to overtighten things, it can also break the end of the adapter and if it were my choice it would not be there in the custom adapters, unfortunately they come pre drilled so I cannot eliminate it.

Bear in mind too that the thicker the motor shaft the easier it is to balance up any fan, especially ones like the CS10, the eflite 5mm shaft makes things very easy, HET going to 4mm shafts on more and more of their motors helps a lot, 3.17mm shafts are the hardest to balance out when used with alloy housings.

Edit: ok I see you are using a 3.17 shaft motor, if you dont have a micrometer send it to me or get someone to mic the shaft up, as the custom adapter should not be an issue, usually they are firm on HET motors. Or send the adapter/s back so I can recheck them, I have shafts here I use to check the adapters, all are HET shafts, it would be odd if it was "loose" as such.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:13 AM
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Great report Peter, thanks shame that yours didn't come balanced, you'd expect when spending that sort of money that it would be....I mean that's the whole reason right??? otherwise we'd all just go for the HK red light specials and try balance them ourselves
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jim350 View Post
That's why i paid the little bit extra to have it all assembled and balanced.
= one happy customer
You know Jim, this makes me think better not to sell bare fan units, I think I will remove them from the website and sell the adapters, spinners, and rotors as parts only, and complete fans as combos. Alloy housings are not easy to work with, they forgive nothing, and its not worth having the inexperienced run into problems with them for the sake of a sale.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:17 AM
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Great report Peter, thanks shame that yours didn't come balanced, you'd expect when spending that sort of money that it would be....I mean that's the whole reason right??? otherwise we'd all just go for the HK red light specials and try balance them ourselves
I balance all the rotors the same way, the ones that are sent out and the ones that go into fan units. It requires more than just a balanced rotor when assembling these as I have just outlined.

Oh and take a factory dynamically balanced Wemo rotor and stick it on a shaft, you will find it will 9 times out of 10 have vibrations at certain throttle points even if its in a plastic housing. Rotate it and you will find the harmonic sweet spot, same with their spinners, precision german made yet still require adjustments and often balancing. This is why wemotec now offer assembled balanced fan units on their website!
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:29 AM
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I am waiting for my extreme alloy CS10 (fan only) to arrive and will report back.

I will be setting it up with an HK 2630kv inrunner on 5S to test.

From experience with these rotors, a couple of small changes in the shaft adapter and spinner angular rotation are all that's needed to go from a fully unbalanced combo to a smooth runner and vice versa.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:40 AM
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Pete; Oh if only you had paid Mark the $25 to assemble and balance the entire unit, you would have had nothing to write about. Figures you would find a problem where others haven't. How about posting some pictures for your 4mm issue.

Value and what will it take to achieve X performance are two very different things that you keep comparing. You're shifting affordability at the cost performance which changes the appeal.

Since these are already below the average EDF cost many seek a level of sound and performance criteria, so it costs what it costs ...

Otherwise I should feel great that my $24K deisel out performs my $240K Ferrari because I can haul my kids and groceries up to 60mph in under 8 second rather than me and just the wife in under 4 at a much lower cost. We just don't see such comparisons because the performance criteria is usually just 0-60 in the least amount of seconds. Everything else is personal preference criteria. Lack luster performance for the least dollars spent isn't exactly a highlight......
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 08:41 AM
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my alloy fan unit is still without the spinner despite Mark has sent me 2 more to fit it on..none of them are balanced and vibration is bad whenever i mount the spinner on,.Mark even sent me the instruction to balance the spinner... i just find it too tedious... Now this alloy fan unit is sitting on the shelf since i hv bought in as i just don't feel like fitting into my jet without the spinner..it's just incomplete for the price i paid for a "balanced" set.......
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by viperviper View Post
my alloy fan unit is still without the spinner despite Mark has sent me 2 more to fit it on..none of them are balanced and vibration is bad whenever i mount the spinner on,.Mark even sent me the instruction to balance the spinner... i just find it too tedious... Now this alloy fan unit is sitting on the shelf since i hv bought in as i just don't feel like fitting into my jet without the spinner..it's just incomplete for the price i paid for a "balanced" set.......
I balanced a Haoye 127mm in less than 10mins the other day...

Those fans are notorious for being unbalanced and need clock method for shaft adapter to spinner...I have no machine and I used a simple prop balancer in my hand with duct tape.

It's not hard work and you only have to do it once...

Then again if you can afford it having someone else do it for you is pretty nice.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by erh7771 View Post
I balanced a Haoye 127mm in less than 10mins the other day...

Those fans are notorious for being unbalanced and need clock method for shaft adapter to spinner...I have no machine and I used a simple prop balancer in my hand with duct tape.

It's not hard work and you only have to do it once...

Then again if you can afford it having someone else do it for you is pretty nice.
nose spinner is not easy to balance...
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 09:16 AM
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nose spinner is not easy to balance...
It's not that difficult if looks matter to you.

I usually leave the spinners off mine if the don't help in balancing the whole setup.

I 've balanced a couple of the plastic spinners in about 20mins. After you do it the first time and get the hang of it, it's pretty simple.
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