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Old May 29, 2012, 02:42 AM
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Greece, Attica, Athens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugFlyer View Post
Tested without Intake Lip, numbers actually went down a little when tested with Intake Lip![/U]
4S, 42-45 Amps @ 692-716 Watts w/ a Zippy 2650mAh/45C & a G-Force 3300mAh/35C respectively.
Rick,

just noticed that you used a Zippy 2650 45c.

I have the same and I am not real impressed about its current delivery capability.

Mark(ExtremeRC) is right, we need volts as well just to see if the batteries are not the issue.
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Old May 29, 2012, 02:56 AM
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Well this statement:
"4S, 42-45 Amps @ 692-716 Watts w/ a Zippy 2650mAh/45C & a G-Force 3300mAh/35C respectively.".... with the battery pair and 'respectively' on the end, means he got 42A @ 692 W on the 2650, and 45A @ 716W on the 3300

Mark reverse engineered the volts of the 2650 case..... showing it must have been right near the peak numbers.
The 3300 shows it was later on, below peak... because it (both really) should have cruised in the currrent draw needs. So its peak volts would have been more into the 16's.

But anyway, the main issue is the 40's Amps..... that is too low - not due to voltage, but most likely due to a lack of load. And it is pretty well impossible that lip and no lip are the same, so something is looking likely to be amiss with that aspect.
A lip that does nothing.....? lol, But seeing they supply the lip, so in the CS10 that is generally a constant across all testers.

Maybe the lip was put onto the wrong end of the fan, hehe... or the wrong way around (as hard as that would be to do!).. (joke).

But something is not right there.....
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Old May 29, 2012, 03:09 AM
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Greece, Attica, Athens
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or maybe the rotor is slipping on the shaft.....

One of the reasons I like ExtremeRC shaft adapters so much is that they can be held in place with a screwdriver through the hole and the nut tightened properly...
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Last edited by anlucas; May 29, 2012 at 03:56 AM.
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Old May 29, 2012, 03:43 AM
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The chances of fluking the same current, due to a rotor slipping just enough in the lip case, and not in the no lip case, across 4 tests, is pretty slim.
I would expect this is caused by something a lot more "solid", thus consistency.
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Old May 29, 2012, 05:40 AM
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Anyone used Emax inrunner motors?

They have some 2856 versions with open endcaps and they are reasonably priced.
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Old May 29, 2012, 07:10 AM
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
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Anybody?
How come my 1W40 sounds better at the recomended 18 advance rather than at zero timing? Same thing with my little CP 480 3300. At zero timing both have this growel at low and hoooo at full rpm but when I set the recomended timing to 18 on the HET and 15 on the CP they both sound way more smooth .
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
Anyone used Emax inrunner motors?

They have some 2856 versions with open endcaps and they are reasonably priced.
Which site?

Might be worth trying,
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by erh7771 View Post
Which site?

Might be worth trying,
I found them locally for ~$35 and on searching I found the company

http://www.emaxmodel.com/views.asp?hw_id=253

and also this site which sells bulk now but they can sell single items for $28.

http://www.bidproduct.com/more/cartview.php?id=7322

I am getting a 2300kv from my LHS to test....
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Old May 29, 2012, 06:59 PM
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Again, something I have not read anything about.... but an ESC would really have to have a 'dynamic' advance process in its programming. eg It senses the motor position and more importantly speed, and thus knows its needs to have more advance as the speed increases.
Our "Timing" setting figure would be the advance "offset" that they append to that base timing curve.
This would be because any static programmed timing curve would not suit all motors optimally, thus it allows you to adjust and fine tune the advance more towards its optimal.

Hopefully readers know a bit about how a motor works, or even to think how it would work.....
The winding/stator gets powered to build a magnetic field that "pulls" the magnet towards it. Thus the motor rotates, at least that bit for a start. And by cycling the pattern of which windings/stators are powered at what time, the cycle keeps the motor turning. Speed up that cycle and the motor ends up turning faster....
Hopefully you can understand that the timing of WHEN the winding/stator is powered (thus builds its magnetic field) will need to be done sooner and sooner as the speed of the motor (RPM) rises. This is because of the TIME it takes to get the magnetic field built to its optimal, to be at the right time (timing) for that motor speed.

If the timing is too 'slow', late, then the pull that the magnetic field has will be less optimal.... occurring too late - not totally too late, just later than optimal. And as the magnet passes the stator, the magnetic field will still be there and thus pulling BACKWARDS on the direction of travel for X amount of time.
Thus not having the optimal timing means wasteful things happen.

Too late, or too soon (too advanced) both have issues. Too advanced will begin building the magnetic field before the last magnet to pass is clear enough to not be affected by that. So it will have some reverse direction 'drag' on it.
The result a user will see/hear are things like stuttering.... pulsing - shock pulses.... different sound.... in more extreme cases of timing issue you will hear some pretty extreme 'terrible' sounds! LOL

And because the whole system is not an overly precise one anyway (and better ESC's do it all 'better') you are not likely to have an ESC running a motor optimally from low RPM right through to high RPM. It will 'excel' at some point in the range, due to the Timing chosen, and be X amount non-optimal either side of that. Some lousy ESC's notably amiss in areas, good ones would do a good job all the way (still not optimal all the way though).
And all we get to do is TRY what we can adjust... the Timing setting (and PWM). And see how that works across the motors RPM range.
"Hmmmm, that works pretty good... sounds pretty good... the testing numbers measured are pretty good".... not overly technical/precise but it is all we can do, and good enough for our purposes really.

If a user has a power meter, RPM meter (electronic preferably) and a way to measure thrust, and wants to get the best from their plane/setup, I would advise them to go through a complete testing process of their motor/setup via timings. See what YOU get in your setup, and optimise that. Start from the lowest timing and build up. And RECORD every test and all its numbers/results.
At very least, you can go by what someone else tells you (or posts), but everything in the whole world needs to be taken with a grain of salt.... there are many reasons that information given is not necessarily truly correct... so the only way to be truly assured of things is do it yourself! LOL. (use other information as a guide, or if it is all you can go by).
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Old May 29, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Peter,

Remember that the ESC gets a signal back from the motor in the form of induced current. Therefore the ESC knows the position of the rotor at all times.

Steve
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Old May 29, 2012, 07:50 PM
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That was mentioned in the first paragraph, first sentence.... but that sense information isn't enough, and accurate enough, for them to get everything truly optimal. Thus why they give extra settings ability.
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Peter,

Not sure if you are talking about one specific ESC or just in general.

Steve
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anlucas View Post
or maybe the rotor is slipping on the shaft.....

One of the reasons I like ExtremeRC shaft adapters so much is that they can be held in place with a screwdriver through the hole and the nut tightened properly...
Nope... I'm using the Extreme RC Shafts too. That's why I like them over stock shafts & Tams adapters because of the Hole at the end of the shaft so you don't break the fan blade trying to tighten it, plus he uses Large set screws!
However I do like how Tams shafts are chamfered on the female end of the shaft.

I'm going to retest the same 2W-25 /CS-10 fan in the CS housing instead of the Delta-V housing and see if that changes the numbers!
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Well this statement:

But anyway, the main issue is the 40's Amps..... that is too low - not due to voltage, but most likely due to a lack of load. And it is pretty well impossible that lip and no lip are the same, so something is looking likely to be amiss with that aspect.
A lip that does nothing.....? lol, But seeing they supply the lip, so in the CS10 that is generally a constant across all testers.

Maybe the lip was put onto the wrong end of the fan, hehe... or the wrong way around (as hard as that would be to do!).. (joke).

But something is not right there.....
Peter, My tests were done using the E-Flight Delta-V15 housing & Delta -V15 Lip which is a rolled lip not a Flared lip as on the CS-70 housing. http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...ProdID=EFLDF15

So this is a variable that is different from the other 2W-25 tests and would be my guess as to why the numbers are lower. And as I stated earlier the test using the V-15 intake lip were at the end of my PVC test stand instead of inside it(since the increased diameter of the lip wouldn't allow the EDF to go completely inside the stand) so that my be why the #'s are less even with the lip installed.

I'm going to retest the same 2W-25 /CS-10 fan in the CS housing instead of the Delta-V housing tomorrow and see if that changes the numbers! This is the Only variable that I know of that is different than the other 2w-25 testers, it's just hard to believe that the E-flight housing would drop numbers by that much compared to the CS-70 housing. But we'll soon see!
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugFlyer View Post
Nope... I'm using the Extreme RC Shafts too. That's why I like them over stock shafts & Tams adapters because of the Hole at the end of the shaft so you don't break the fan blade trying to tighten it, plus he uses Large set screws!
However I do like how Tams shafts are chamfered on the female end of the shaft.

I'm going to retest the same 2W-25 /CS-10 fan in the CS housing instead of the Delta-V housing and see if that changes the numbers!

I know is hard to hold the part to tight.
The batch is done. Cut the slot for screw driver to hold the shaft to tight the nut is next batch.
But I had easy fix with locking washer and now order are ship with it.
I use on all my fan TJ70, TJ80 and TJ90 over last week.
Is work very good and you only need to tight the enough to lock it.
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Last edited by Tamjets; May 29, 2012 at 09:51 PM.
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