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Old Apr 16, 2012, 12:58 AM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
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I would have thought it would be faster with 2300w going into it, my F16 is doing similar speeds with 900w on 4s. Maybe the airframe is really draggy?
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:15 AM
3DHOG
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Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
seems you have a great kv to use with this fan .....are you using a adaptor from Tam ?
ya Rodger we are using Tams eflight v32 shaft adapter with a minor modification to it and I dynamically balanced the rotor. Tam is going to make specific adapters for this, amps are still ok with this motor and the performance gain was there but it did not transfer to the aircraft in flight so we have hit the wall with this airframe and or ducting. I still think the 2150kv bl32 motor is better because amps are lower, flight time is better and really no inflight performance loss was noticed, the mega motor seemed to be smoother and more quiet than the bl32 however. I think if one could get a high quality motor like these in a 2000 or 2100kv that could be really good because you should be able to get amp draw down in the 50-60 range and use smaller liter batteries and still get 40k from the rotor this would be the efficient sweet spot
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:20 AM
3DHOG
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Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
I would have thought it would be faster with 2300w going into it, my F16 is doing similar speeds with 900w on 4s. Maybe the airframe is really draggy?
ya this is a 4lb Jet with retracts I would bet our watts per pound are pretty close, not equal but close. the F16 is a very low drag airframe
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:31 AM
3DHOG
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Originally Posted by clive45 View Post
Its a pity Tam's shrouds are so expensive...........................
when you add up all the motors that you dont burn up and all the other fans you didn't have to buy, they seem very reasonable to me
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jcdfrd View Post
when you add up all the motors that you dont burn up and all the other fans you didn't have to buy, they seem very reasonable to me
I've burned only 1 motor in the last year and a half staying within bench tested parameters during a test flight.

This is a life long hobby to me so the upfront investments are WELL worth it...
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:18 AM
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thats a good record ERH and you obviously enjoy playing around with the technology of edf. I'm not saying your doing it wrong, just saying if your end result is a high performance, long lasting and reliable edf jet that you want then you will eventually figure out that cheap plastic fans and motors wont get you there. it does depend a lot on how you fly and how much you fly, I need a setup that is going to do 100's of trouble free flight not tens of flights. my first two edf fans were high quality plastic fans with good motors and good to excellent assembly and balance by me. my first was 3000watt setup and second was 3700 watt setup neither of which made it to 50 flights before housing failure was imminent I caught these problems before failure and quickly learned that they could not cut it. 50 flights for me is about 1 to 2 months of flying. so you can see for me a new plastic housing every two months is more expensive than one good fan that will give me hundreds of flights and thats assuming you catch all the would be failures before they happen, if you miss one and it takes out a model well then your really behind the ball
I realize its different for everyone and this is just how it works for me
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jcdfrd View Post
thats a good record ERH and you obviously enjoy playing around with the technology of edf. I'm not saying your doing it wrong, just saying if your end result is a high performance, long lasting and reliable edf jet that you want then you will eventually figure out that cheap plastic fans and motors wont get you there....
I agree, it doesn't work to go cheap it MOSTLY works to look at specs of components and go with good quality. The quality doesn't come with the price, I've done that before and have gotten taken over and over again. I mean 150usd esc's being less reliable than 20usd ones from China or a charger that cost twice as much as the knock offs but having thermal shut down at low temps to bearings going out on motors that cost 3 times as much as the non name brand.

If I'm going to pay 5 times the cost I at least want 2.5 times the performance and reliability
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 01:09 PM
John
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Ok so before i buy a new motor! Is the general consensus that the e-flight bl32 is one of the better motors suited for this fan on 6S???
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 01:20 PM
John
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Has anyone dare tried running the CP2500kv on 6S??
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jk671 View Post
Has anyone dare tried running the CP2500kv on 6S??
Yes,

~85amps\23volts\6s\~5.5lbs of thrust
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 02:18 PM
Diverted by planks
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Also posted on F9 RC Lander thread, but figured it applied here as well:

Quote:
Bench test of CS10 fan w/BT3100:

* Battery: 20-30C 3S 2200 @ 12.53 (~96% charge remaining)
* Amps: 51 A
* Watts: 570 W

* Battery: 30-40C 4S 3300 @ 15.56V (~60% charge remaining)
* Amps: 76 A
* Watts: 1050 W

I guess rather than having 'lots of overhead' like I wanted when I installed the 80A ESC, the reality is that unless I alter this setup, I might be pushing the envelope, even with it's size.

The good thing is that this was on the bench, with the fan wide open to nature -- none of the ducting or other restrictions are in place yet, so I assume this will be worst case load.

I think it's burst rated for 100A for up to ten seconds, so I am thinking I could 'get away with it' esp if I limit launches to 75% power, and then cruise at maybe 1/2 to 3/4 throttle as well?



PS: Charging my 4S 3300's right now, and will retest with a 100% battery. Guess it's better to blow it up on the bench than in the air, right?




PSS: I do have an unused Detrum 70mm "hop-up" kit, and could steal the motor from that, but it is a 3000KV itself, so not too much difference there. Not sure it's worth pulling the BT3100 to change for that small a difference.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jk671 View Post
Ok so before i buy a new motor! Is the general consensus that the e-flight bl32 is one of the better motors suited for this fan on 6S???
I sure like it
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 03:04 PM
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erh7771 View Post
Yes,

~85amps\23volts\6s\~5.5lbs of thrust
And it survived??? Because if it will then i might run with that!
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jk671 View Post
And it survived??? Because if it will then i might run with that!
Yes, forgot the heat specs...

It survived around 3-5 10 - 20 second burst on bench with bell and shaft temps around 180f IIRC tops with a quick fall off with no cool down (it wasn't holding the heat) which seems like the best way to try and burn up a motor during bench testing...I usually go 3/4 thorttle after I spin the motor back up then burst.....kinda like I'm flying.

I've been running this motor and an 8 blade 80mm F16 fan (I forget who made them, they are light and cheap though) for almost 20 flights at in my GWS A-4 plane. I've yet to put the 10 blade fan on 6s in the plane but it gives has similar watt requirements.

6s\78 amps\? thrust (have not idea but the sound is sooooo sick)\ around 22 volts on a 3300mah 45c NANO pack.

Did I mention the sound is sick?

Note:

I slow spin that CP 480-2500kv motor up with one of those HK 70-80 amp esc (really a 100amp esc) and the heat shrink taken off to get better cooling and it's held up great. I think the slow spooling might help keep the motor cool and my packs cool too.

I ran one of the 3300mah 45c nano packs down past 3300mah during flight (3450-ish charge reading) and on final I still had a good punch!!!

When I felt the pack it wasn't steaming hot either, it was warmed up like a pack that I had run without slow spool up but stressed a little....no puffing etc. One cell didn't like that ish and read a high IR on the charger but once charged it was back below 0 and I don't think I've heard from it sense.

Slow spooling also helps transient power issues in esc's, "burst" power is reduce and so are ripples in the esc FET "rails" (audio guys should know what I'm talking about)....

You will also get a slight turbine like delay in response but not so slow your timings is way off, take offs are nice sounding too...

I wish the other SUPPO esc's had a slow start like this and again I think it helps the motors not having to deal with "burst" heat also.

an observation
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 04:04 PM
John
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United States, NV, Las Vegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erh7771 View Post
Yes, forgot the heat specs...

It survived around 3-5 10 - 20 second burst on bench with bell and shaft temps around 180f IIRC tops with a quick fall off with no cool down (it wasn't holding the heat) which seems like the best way to try and burn up a motor during bench testing...I usually go 3/4 thorttle after I spin the motor back up then burst.....kinda like I'm flying.

I've been running this motor and an 8 blade 80mm F16 fan (I forget who made them, they are light and cheap though) for almost 20 flights at in my GWS A-4 plane. I've yet to put the 10 blade fan on 6s in the plane but it gives has similar watt requirements.

6s\78 amps\? thrust (have not idea but the sound is sooooo sick)\ around 22 volts on a 3300mah 45c NANO pack.

Did I mention the sound is sick?

Note:

I slow spin that CP 480-2500kv motor up with one of those HK 70-80 amp esc (really a 100amp esc) and the heat shrink taken off to get better cooling and it's held up great. I think the slow spooling might help keep the motor cool and my packs cool too.

I ran one of the 3300mah 45c nano packs down past 3300mah during flight (3450-ish charge reading) and on final I still had a good punch!!!

When I felt the pack it wasn't steaming hot either, it was warmed up like a pack that I had run without slow spool up but stressed a little....no puffing etc. One cell didn't like that ish and read a high IR on the charger but once charged it was back below 0 and I don't think I've heard from it sense.

Slow spooling also helps transient power issues in esc's, "burst" power is reduce and so are ripples in the esc FET "rails" (audio guys should know what I'm talking about)....

You will also get a slight turbine like delay in response but not so slow your timings is way off, take offs are nice sounding too...

I wish the other SUPPO esc's had a slow start like this and again I think it helps the motors not having to deal with "burst" heat also.

an observation
Ok well i will put my CP 2500kv on the test stand put it on video and see what we get! I also have a 45C nano 3300mah 6S and i am anxious to run this in my exceed rc f-18!
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