HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 30, 2012, 06:45 PM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
Extreme_RC's Avatar
Australia
Joined Mar 2006
11,725 Posts
Clearly shows melting around the bolts, and I dont see why it would be uncommon, 86A through a 3025 size motor is gonna get it hot, I run a hyperion S series 3025 at 100A burst in a hotliner style glider on 3s and if I get a little too carried away with my climbouts the motor is so hot you get burnt with a simple touch!
Extreme_RC is offline Find More Posts by Extreme_RC
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 30, 2012, 06:55 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
11,558 Posts
Hard to tell from pics, you pretty well need to be able to pour over it yourself.... but the 'damage' looks like it could be heat OR loctite (chemical 'melt').
To melt the CS10 housing via heat - even to melt it a small amount - would need a lot of heat. You would most likely see SMOKE from the plane even, as the windings burnt as part of that (Even if just Shellac burning/charring). The motor would not get that hot just from running at high Watts in the 1800W area you mention. (which would also most likely have been what you saw when testing, not flying).
So I suspect loctite damage...

In Pic 1 you can see the 'bottom' screw remained in place, but the other three headed rightwards and allowed rotation of the motor, to be off centre and thus the end result then.
If it 'melted' that would allow sideways 'eating', and/or even the motor to come looser which then means the srews are only being held by their thread in that sideways direction (maybe those 3 loose then), so then they can do that 'eating' into the sideways directions.
But they would still only 'eat' if assisted by chemical or heat reaction.

Does the motor have any discolourations? As evidence of high heat.
Do you use a LOT of loctite? - as the 'melting' under the screw heads would mean it was oozing under them in that case.

I will do some tests on mine tonight or tomorrow night. It runs 1800W, and is in the same F-16 and motor (84Amps approx). So I will do heat checks on it in-plane, as it is being restricted by inlet airflow - well, inlet as far as I can work out so far. (working out how to put 'nice looking' cheaters into it). I have run it up a number of times, doing Amp and heat checks before and nothing was untoward. But not a full battery on WOT.
PeterVRC is offline Find More Posts by PeterVRC
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Skyzone Goggles - Button Shield
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:38 PM
Registered User
4stripes's Avatar
Canada, ON, Burlington
Joined Jan 2009
3,190 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by erh7771 View Post
What were the watt numbers on the motor?

1700 kv usually gets you around 100 amps on 6s
Sorry ERH
that is not the experience I have had. I tried a couple 1600kv motors on 6S with good batteries the amp draw was approx. 125A! There is the "factory" changesun"1600kv" outrunner that runs very close to 100A with a full charge, though I believe the Kv is actually closer to 1500.
My XK4074-B-1400 runs about 95A initially on good 6S batteries.

We are talking about the Changesun 90mm 12 blade fan aren't we?
4stripes is offline Find More Posts by 4stripes
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Some photos of the EDF fleet!
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:43 PM
Registered User
4stripes's Avatar
Canada, ON, Burlington
Joined Jan 2009
3,190 Posts
Petervrc raised a good point,
Locktite will melt plastic. Perhaps a couple drops made it onto the plastic and between the motor and shroud...
4stripes is offline Find More Posts by 4stripes
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Some photos of the EDF fleet!
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:01 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Grand Prairie
Joined Nov 2005
5,773 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
Sorry ERH
that is not the experience I have had. I tried a couple 1600kv motors on 6S with good batteries the amp draw was approx. 125A! There is the "factory" changesun"1600kv" outrunner that runs very close to 100A with a full charge, though I believe the Kv is actually closer to 1500.
My XK4074-B-1400 runs about 95A initially on good 6S batteries.

We are talking about the Changesun 90mm 12 blade fan aren't we?
What c rating packs are you using?

I have 1600kv align motors that run close to 100 also but with 65c packs or brand new 45cs

Flip Flops HET 1480ish KV in the beginning of the thread was around 100 amps on 8s...so that's were I'm getting around 100 amps on 1700kv...actually I get around 108 on that 1700kv version of the l3025 motor

I think HET, Scorpion and ARC have some of the most accurate KV motors...
erh7771 is online now Find More Posts by erh7771
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:04 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Grand Prairie
Joined Nov 2005
5,773 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
Petervrc raised a good point,
Locktite will melt plastic. Perhaps a couple drops made it onto the plastic and between the motor and shroud...
Good info, I didn't know this!

I had TONS of loctite on the motor mount with the smaller heads...

I put the loctite on the screws first and then put them in, I remember that step distinctly...
erh7771 is online now Find More Posts by erh7771
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:12 PM
Registered User
4stripes's Avatar
Canada, ON, Burlington
Joined Jan 2009
3,190 Posts
My packs are 6s 5500mah 25c Gens ace. Great batteries by the way....
4stripes is offline Find More Posts by 4stripes
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Some photos of the EDF fleet!
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:21 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
11,558 Posts
I use blue loctite on shaft adaptors (prob should use green really) and CA on motor screws.
I have not seen loctite melt plastic myself (yet), but too many people have mentioned it does, so I tried CA (as they also mentioned) and it seemed to work fine to me.

It is quite hard to use loctite and NOT get any on the housing/mount, for any fan - if you use it, then some will get there one way or another almost certainly.
I use it 'sparingly' (what I consider the right amount to fill thread, but never ooze - though some small amount still will), but I bet some people just slop it on! LOL

Maybe heat/warmth makes the loctite 'melt' happen even sooner/easier?
PeterVRC is offline Find More Posts by PeterVRC
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Skyzone Goggles - Button Shield
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:27 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Grand Prairie
Joined Nov 2005
5,773 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
My packs are 6s 5500mah 25c Gens ace. Great batteries by the way....
I'm REALLY impressed with the Gens Ace..after using them I don't understand how some other packs could cost twice as much.

My observations is the heat, ..usually I don't care what the c rating of the packs is I don't like to take them over 30c cause of heat but with Gens the packs come down way cooler.... anyone know if they're making those packs out of a different factory?
erh7771 is online now Find More Posts by erh7771
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:43 PM
Registered User
koren9's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
113 Posts
Interesting point about the loctite peter , I will look into that .
also , the motor does not have any signs of overheating , but it would be great if you can take some temp reading in your F-16 with the same setup .
Thank you .
koren9 is offline Find More Posts by koren9
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:51 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
11,558 Posts
Yep, will do that tonight pretty surely. I finally finished mine to flyable state over the weekend.
I even ran it briefly on 7S, to up the power.... but that needs more detailed testing, and the poor 3025 probably won't like it being used for more than very short periods!!
PeterVRC is offline Find More Posts by PeterVRC
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Skyzone Goggles - Button Shield
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 10:17 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
437 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by erh7771 View Post
I'm REALLY impressed with the Gens Ace..after using them I don't understand how some other packs could cost twice as much.

My observations is the heat, ..usually I don't care what the c rating of the packs is I don't like to take them over 30c cause of heat but with Gens the packs come down way cooler.... anyone know if they're making those packs out of a different factory?
I feel the same way about gens ace. I just hope the prices stay at what they are now.
PAPE is offline Find More Posts by PAPE
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 10:25 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
437 Posts
I did notice on a bench test of the cs12 3025 on 6s 30c zippy packs, that after a 90sec WOT test the motor was smoking but it was the oil I had cleaned the windings with *corrosion X*.

The motor got very hot, enough to smoke off the oil but the windings looked brand new, I haven't tested it again and I haven't finished the mirage its going in but I always thought about the heat affecting the shroud. I am going to test it again on gen aces 60c lipos again for at least 1min wot to see what happens before putting it in the plane.
PAPE is offline Find More Posts by PAPE
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 10:39 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,789 Posts
like ive said this motor isnt a good CS12 motor, gets too hot. Your planes arent worth the $17 this piece of #$% motor delivers.
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30, 2012, 11:56 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
11,558 Posts
Yeah, when I was looking over my test 'notes' (comments on video of the test) I had noted how it seemed 'under duress' and not likely to last long term due to the heat levels. That was on 6S at 85A area, 1800W. On dual batteries I got 1900W.... but I wasn't clear on my views as to whether they were made on the single 6S, or the dual battery.
And I remember posting here, that long time back then, about how it seemed it was going to be a marginal motor. But I did (do still?) think it would be passable at that 1800W - the dual battery test is just to see what lower IR/higher-C could drive it to, as a reference against the single battery I would use.

I guess I should unbolt it from the plane for tests....
PeterVRC is offline Find More Posts by PeterVRC
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Skyzone Goggles - Button Shield
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold Zurich sun blocking sun-glasses $40 shipped mjbennett9 Aircraft - General - Miscellaneous (FS/W) 7 Oct 06, 2011 11:47 PM
Sold Zurich sun blocking sun-glasses $50 shipped mjbennett9 Aircraft - General - Miscellaneous (FS/W) 0 Oct 05, 2011 10:14 PM
Sold Change Sun electric retracts Flip Flop Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 3 May 23, 2011 07:20 AM
Sold Change Sun Electronic retracts w/Lander struts hole digger Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 2 May 06, 2011 02:27 PM
Video 6 and 12 blade 90mm fan sound test tom bacsanyi Electric Plane Talk 3 Dec 10, 2009 08:01 PM