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Old Oct 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
scatsob's Avatar
United States, NC, Jacksonville
Joined Apr 2006
1,653 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basingstoke Roy View Post
Hi scatsob,
Yer there's no problem using gas props on electric motors. I,ve also had to resort to them for my contra motors in the past. With pushers you use what you can find.

I'm interested to see how you get on on with this motor, If you get the rubbing sorted. I didn't realise just how big a motor it was at first, about twice the power of any I've built in the past.

I've also been tempted by the HiMaxx & nice looking motor they are to, but I could never justify the cost. Of course the real challenge is to build a motor your self, are you up for it !!
It is a big motor, and thats what got me excited about it. I figured with the props I would run it wouldbe in the 3000 watt region, and sound wicked.

I am actually impressed with the way HK is handeling the situation. I am hopeing they can find me a motor that does not rub and send it over. There are a few design issues with the motor but nothing that can not be worked throught. The biggest of which is a longer shaft but McMaster Carr will fix that right up.

I would try to do one myself but between my family and the US NAVY I have just enough spare time to build an ARF or two and fly on occasion.
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Old Oct 21, 2011, 09:28 PM
Tow Dog.
Pilatuspc12's Avatar
United States, CO, Hotchkiss
Joined Oct 2006
1,667 Posts
Good job, Scatsob. I'm subscribed. I too would love an 80 inch or better wingspan Seafang or Spiteful. A friend started to design one for us, years ago but he moved away and haven't heard from him since. A fellow by the name of John Simmance. He was using ModelCad. Good luck, I'll be watching.

Randy

P.S. Here's a video you might enjoy watching.

FR-47 Seafire "The one and only" (3 min 56 sec)
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 02:31 AM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,008 Posts
I also just got this ARF and it is gorgeous. I'm not doing a contra (that will be one cool setup) but am planning instead a Power 160 build that will either be something like 10S 2-blade or 8S with either a 4-blade or 5-blade 18" Zinger prop. On the subject of these wood props, I fabbed up my own 4-blade 14x8 Zinger for my CMP Mustang 50 project (see thread) and it worked out fine power-wise and produced scale speed. Sounded nice too. So no problems there. If you have them build the prop, it is about $50 for that and another $35 or so (if I recall) for the spinner.

There is another thread in here somewhere regarding this bird and the issues with this ARF are:

1. All ESM birds are tail-heavy, the worst offender being the Typhoon. ON this one, the published CG is wrong. Needs to be recalculated at whatever 25% MAC is to fly right. It is 1 if not 2 inches forward of stated CG. Any ability to put batteries ahead of the firewall area should be explored. Tail servos are definitely NOT an option. I tried this on that CMP mustang and had to rip it all out.

2. The hardware is junk. Should just be thrown out. For the Mustang's elevator control linkage, I wound up using an old modeling trick I picked up in a book: Balsa shaft with threaded 2/56 at either end, bent at 90 into the balsa. Then, wrap both ends with nylon/cotton thread and soak in CA. Incredibly strong and light. At the elevator end, I used twin rods for a Y connection so both sides are actuated. 10-13mm Carbon tube could also work, but the wood is lighter.

3. Eflite retracts will definitely not work here. I know of no case where this built to less than 13lb. So it's either the ESM electrics or Springairs for me.

Overall, model is said to fly very well, even at elevated wing loadings.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 08:26 AM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
scatsob's Avatar
United States, NC, Jacksonville
Joined Apr 2006
1,653 Posts
Awesome video. the FR-47 is an awesome plane. I didnt know one still existed that was not on static display.

TT- The Futaba s3102 are not heavy servos but are strong. At the very least I want to get them in the stabs, it will make setting up a lot easier. I am really hoping that the heavy motor and 2x 6s 5000's will make up the difference.

As to the hardware, I already have dubro pin hinges. I dont skimp on hinges, I have never had a control surface come off an airplane and dont plan on having one come off this plane.

Retracts, I am going to patiently wait for the ESM's. They are reasonably priced and look like they are built like tanks.

I am still waiting on a resolution from HK so well see on the motor. I guess if it comes down to it I will do a 5 blade setup on 12s.
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:09 AM
Tow Dog.
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United States, CO, Hotchkiss
Joined Oct 2006
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There is no substitute for the real thing. The spitfire's blades look longer aspect ratio. Ron's airplane engine was off of a Shackleton patrol airplane.

Randy
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Old Oct 22, 2011, 09:38 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,008 Posts
Agree it would definitely be a nice neat setup. Nice at least to have the redundancy. But yo just can't beat forward-mounted servos for CG. Keep us posted how it turns out scatsbob. This plane at least has the longer Griffon snout so there is plenty of room in there for batteries.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 12:06 PM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
scatsob's Avatar
United States, NC, Jacksonville
Joined Apr 2006
1,653 Posts
Its funny, I am having the opposite problem with an Extra I just put together. Im going to have to push the battery back to get the CG right, or add weight to the nose. I have never had that happen before. In the case of the spitfire, I am really hoping that the measly 50 grams they will add to the tail will not affect it too much. I hate long control rods, dont trust them at high speed.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 03:46 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,008 Posts
That would be a nice problem to have! Unfortunately, the ESM birds are notorious in this regard. There is another thread (mpope1 ?) where they have a full on sound system with big speakers and a big motor and still they had to add weight. I think if one can get batteries in there up front, it should not be too bad.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 04:29 PM
Scale Builder
United States, AZ, Litchfield Park
Joined Jul 2002
2,484 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatuspc12 View Post
There is no substitute for the real thing. The spitfire's blades look longer aspect ratio. Ron's airplane engine was off of a Shackleton patrol airplane.

Randy
The PoF Spitfire also used the engine/propellor combination out of an Avro Shackleton. It appears as though Buccarelli had the blades on "Precious Metal" cut down and reshaped a bit more than those on the Spitfire.

PS - I too started some CAD design work on a Spiteful/Seafang some years back but lack of documentation and too many other projects have prevented me from getting very far. Definitely on my "to do" list though!
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 05:04 PM
Tow Dog.
Pilatuspc12's Avatar
United States, CO, Hotchkiss
Joined Oct 2006
1,667 Posts
That would be great, Chad. I would love to help make/build an 80 inch Seafang/Spiteful some day. I think it would be a great model with contra-rotating propellers. Please let me know what I can do to help.
I demoed a PC-12 with Ron for his boss at Lake Air Inc. a few years ago. Ron flew his boss's Grumman Albatross for him along with other airplanes they owned. He just started flying the P-51 "Precious Metal" at that time. It's a neat looking airplane.

Randy
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 05:24 PM
Field of Dreams Flyer
Mikemynameis's Avatar
San Pedro,Ca
Joined Sep 2004
8,818 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilatuspc12 View Post
Good job, Scatsob. I'm subscribed. I too would love an 80 inch or better wingspan Seafang or Spiteful. A friend started to design one for us, years ago but he moved away and haven't heard from him since. A fellow by the name of John Simmance. He was using ModelCad. Good luck, I'll be watching.

Randy

P.S. Here's a video you might enjoy watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YioXYhbVPA
This guy has other nice warbirds and his own hanger and runway Must be nice to have money
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 05:27 PM
Field of Dreams Flyer
Mikemynameis's Avatar
San Pedro,Ca
Joined Sep 2004
8,818 Posts
Maybe best to use a better made motor
http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-266.html
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 06:11 PM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
scatsob's Avatar
United States, NC, Jacksonville
Joined Apr 2006
1,653 Posts
Yeah, the problem with the himaxx motor is it costs as much as I have into the motor and plane put together. Unfortunately for me I am on a budget and I still need to buy $250 worth of batteries otherwise none of my planes will fly.

Randy- I dont think precious metal was an H model, just a modified D model. H models are awesome. I would love to see a nice P-51H ARF too.

Chad- I too would be interested in a Spiteful. Let me know if I can assist as well.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 07:58 PM
Tow Dog.
Pilatuspc12's Avatar
United States, CO, Hotchkiss
Joined Oct 2006
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Sorry about that, it has a P-51 H tail.
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Old Oct 23, 2011, 11:41 PM
Scale Builder
United States, AZ, Litchfield Park
Joined Jul 2002
2,484 Posts
I guess I will have to revisit the Spiteful/Seafang at some point since it is such a rarely modelled aircraft. As far as contra-prop aircraft, however, the one below has always been highest on my "to do" list. I WILL model this aircraft eventually, just have not figured out all the technical details yet. Electric power is looking better all the time though!

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