HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 29, 2011, 02:36 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Sep 2011
579 Posts
Discussion
mSR vs mCP X

After flying a borrowed 3-ch coax, I decided to get my own heli. I was told repeatedly, by the people at Horizon Hobby and by members of the forum that the mCP X would be too much to handle, and that I should start with the mSR.

I went to my LHS, in the hopes of trying an mCP X out to see how it would fly. This was not to be, as they only had an mCX to try. I bought the mSR and DX5e.

Today, I read a post by a fellow who went to his LHS and played with their sim for a while, and determined that he would start with an mCP X. When I read his post, I thought, "Why didn't I think of that?" They have a Real Flight at my LHS, and I could have done that. I had been a little pressed for time, though, since I combined that purchase trip with another, and I was on my way someplace else. I had an hour at the LHS. My mistake.

I went back today, to check a thing or two out, and while there I played with the Real Flight sim. I flew the mSR, and it flies pretty-much like my mSR does. This sim did not have an mCP X, so I selected the Heli-Max CP, and set the difficulty level to 'intermediate'.

I did not find it more difficult to fly. I found it less difficult. The machine did what my thumbs commanded it to do. Gone, was the pendulum effect, and the TBE.

When I fly my mSR, I feel like landing, jumping up and down on it, and filing an insurance claim.

Live and learn.

Nomad
Nomad57 is offline Find More Posts by Nomad57
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 29, 2011, 02:43 PM
Resident Skeptican
Barak1001's Avatar
USA, AL, Hanceville
Joined May 2008
4,323 Posts
Realflight's helicopter simulation leaves a bit to be desired. Advanced is far closer to real life than the medium setting you tried, but it's still not that close to real life.

The mCPX will not hover hands free and will be much more difficult to fly than in the simulator.
Barak1001 is offline Find More Posts by Barak1001
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 03:33 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Sep 2011
579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post
Realflight's helicopter simulation leaves a bit to be desired. Advanced is far closer to real life than the medium setting you tried, but it's still not that close to real life.

The mCPX will not hover hands free and will be much more difficult to fly than in the simulator.
Thanks, Barak. I'll try the advanced setting next time. (Dunno if/when I'll get there next.)

I read somewhere (It could have been a bold-faced lie) that the sim was more difficult to fly than the aircraft.

If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the mCP X. It was only $40 more, and I understand it handles wind better than the mSR.

My feeling is that if you can't take it outside, you can learn to hover, but you can't learn to fly.

Nomad
Nomad57 is offline Find More Posts by Nomad57
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 03:39 PM
Registered User
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined May 2008
2,574 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
Thanks, Barak. I'll try the advanced setting next time. (Dunno if/when I'll get there next.)

I read somewhere (It could have been a bold-faced lie) that the sim was more difficult to fly than the aircraft.

If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the mCP X. It was only $40 more, and I understand it handles wind better than the mSR.

My feeling is that if you can't take it outside, you can learn to hover, but you can't learn to fly.

Nomad
There is quite a bit of difference between the two. Honestly, with just msr experience you should not have been able to fly the axe cp on a sim or real life. There is also the "pucker factor" that is not present in a sim. I have a friend who just graduated from a solo pro to a blade sr (more stable than an axe cp) and he's still gone through 6 sets of blades. He also had the solo pro for 6 months, not just a couple of weeks.
Druss is offline Find More Posts by Druss
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 04:18 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Sep 2011
579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Druss View Post
There is quite a bit of difference between the two. Honestly, with just msr experience you should not have been able to fly the axe cp on a sim or real life. There is also the "pucker factor" that is not present in a sim. I have a friend who just graduated from a solo pro to a blade sr (more stable than an axe cp) and he's still gone through 6 sets of blades. He also had the solo pro for 6 months, not just a couple of weeks.
Druss,

I'm not familiar with Real Flight, so I don't know about the various settings. The only setting I adjusted was from 'beginner' to 'intermediate'. I don't know if it's a glitch in the sim, or what, but I had less trouble with the AXE than with the mSR. Could be the Real Flight doesn't model the AXE very well.

Nomad
Nomad57 is offline Find More Posts by Nomad57
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 04:22 PM
Resident Skeptican
Barak1001's Avatar
USA, AL, Hanceville
Joined May 2008
4,323 Posts
I would say that it would depend on what simulator that you're using, what helicopter in the sim you're using, and how that helicopter is setup as to whether a sim is easier or more difficult than real life.

You won't be taking the mCPX outside much either. Due to its small size you'll be limited to flying it in windless or almost windless conditions.
Barak1001 is offline Find More Posts by Barak1001
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 05:28 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Sep 2011
579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post
I would say that it would depend on what simulator that you're using, what helicopter in the sim you're using, and how that helicopter is setup as to whether a sim is easier or more difficult than real life.

You won't be taking the mCPX outside much either. Due to its small size you'll be limited to flying it in windless or almost windless conditions.
I read somewhere that Real Flight was more gamish, and Phoenix more accurate. If I ever get a more advance sim than FMS or HeliSimRC, it will most likely be Phoenix.

It has both mSR and mCP X.

Nomad
Nomad57 is offline Find More Posts by Nomad57
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 06:35 PM
Registered User
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined May 2008
2,574 Posts
The engines and physics are very similar between RF and Phoenix, Phoenix might have a slightly better physics engine. RF has the photo background which some may consider to look more gamish but the flight characteristics of both are similar. Keep in mind it depends on the model and who created it. There are a ton of user created models out there that are way better and more realistic than the stock ones which won't be installed on a store display.
Druss is offline Find More Posts by Druss
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 06:49 PM
Resident Skeptican
Barak1001's Avatar
USA, AL, Hanceville
Joined May 2008
4,323 Posts
Phoenix doesn't have any use created models, the models it does have for the most part are extremely good representations of what they are supposed to be. The only exception I've found being the coaxial models don't handle as horrible as the real thing. Phoenix has photo backgrounds as well and graphically both programs are very similar.

I spent about 2 weeks last year flying both programs while testing and comparing the two. Phoenix's physics engine is quite a bit better than RF's. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 completely unrealistic and 10 being just like real life I'd rate RF as a 6 and Phoenix as an 8.
Barak1001 is offline Find More Posts by Barak1001
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 07:11 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Sep 2011
579 Posts
Good info to have. That pretty-much jibes with what I had read somewhere. I checked the 'system requirements' for Phoenix, and my computer may not be up to the task. I have onboard video, rather than a separate video card.

Thanks.

Nomad
Nomad57 is offline Find More Posts by Nomad57
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 07:31 PM
Registered User
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined May 2008
2,574 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post
Phoenix doesn't have any use created models, the models it does have for the most part are extremely good representations of what they are supposed to be. The only exception I've found being the coaxial models don't handle as horrible as the real thing. Phoenix has photo backgrounds as well and graphically both programs are very similar.

I spent about 2 weeks last year flying both programs while testing and comparing the two. Phoenix's physics engine is quite a bit better than RF's. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 completely unrealistic and 10 being just like real life I'd rate RF as a 6 and Phoenix as an 8.
what versions of each did you test?
Druss is offline Find More Posts by Druss
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 08:34 PM
Resident Skeptican
Barak1001's Avatar
USA, AL, Hanceville
Joined May 2008
4,323 Posts
RealFlight 4.5 and Phoenix 2.5 which were both the current versions at the time. Now I'm using Phoenix 3.0s and can say that it's physics engine is even better than 2.5 was.
Barak1001 is offline Find More Posts by Barak1001
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 09:39 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2011
164 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
After flying a borrowed 3-ch coax, I decided to get my own heli. I was told repeatedly, by the people at Horizon Hobby and by members of the forum that the mCP X would be too much to handle, and that I should start with the mSR.

I went to my LHS, in the hopes of trying an mCP X out to see how it would fly. This was not to be, as they only had an mCX to try. I bought the mSR and DX5e.

Today, I read a post by a fellow who went to his LHS and played with their sim for a while, and determined that he would start with an mCP X. When I read his post, I thought, "Why didn't I think of that?" They have a Real Flight at my LHS, and I could have done that. I had been a little pressed for time, though, since I combined that purchase trip with another, and I was on my way someplace else. I had an hour at the LHS. My mistake.

I went back today, to check a thing or two out, and while there I played with the Real Flight sim. I flew the mSR, and it flies pretty-much like my mSR does. This sim did not have an mCP X, so I selected the Heli-Max CP, and set the difficulty level to 'intermediate'.

I did not find it more difficult to fly. I found it less difficult. The machine did what my thumbs commanded it to do. Gone, was the pendulum effect, and the TBE.

When I fly my mSR, I feel like landing, jumping up and down on it, and filing an insurance claim.

Live and learn.

Nomad
Who is to say you can't have both? It is unrealistic to expect to do much more than gently hover around a normal sized house with an mCPx anytime soon. The mSR on the other hand can be "flown" in doors. Banked turns, funnels, fast forward, fast backward, etc. can all be done inside with the mSR, and when you do smack into something, you are less likely to damage the mSR and whatever it hit. Winter is coming so a lot of your available flying time will be severely limited if indoors is not an option.

Obviously the only answer you wanted to hear is that you should have gotten the mCPx. Perhaps you are the one in a million who is just a natural at flying, but then again:

"The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we ALL believe that we are above average drivers. ~Dave Barry"

It would have been irresponsible for your hobby shop to steer you towards an mCPx with only 3 channel coaxial experience. A 4 channel coax would be the next step, but the mSR is still a reasonable step. Your hobby shop should be commended for giving you an honest assessment, rather than telling you what you wanted to hear. Based on your geographic location and previous posts. I would have suggested the mSR as well.

I suspect you will end up with an mCPx sooner rather than later, and that is fine. I for one look forward to your honest comparison. I had an mSR for a few months and had Blade SR before I got my mCPx so I can't really say how hard it would have been to learn with only coaxial experience. Even then, it was a handful and I still only hover gently around my larger rooms and work on my slow pirouettes when indoors. I still love my mSR and even bought a used 120 SR. Each has its purpose, I fly the one that will be the most fun given the available conditions.

-Chocula
Chocula is offline Find More Posts by Chocula
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 10:38 PM
Registered User
sirs69's Avatar
United States, MO, St Peters
Joined Apr 2011
412 Posts
OP: A simulator is a simulator is a simulator..

Even on expert, it's still very forgiving. CP is very hard, some helis' more than others but you get the idea. The mCP can be extra difficult because it's FBL, and won't stabilize itself. It's still a good starter, but only because it's light weight and easy to fix, parts-a-plenty, etc .. It's not without problems though, try googling MCP tail blowout, hehe.
sirs69 is offline Find More Posts by sirs69
Last edited by sirs69; Sep 29, 2011 at 10:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 29, 2011, 11:30 PM
banging head on wall
skyeblu's Avatar
Joined Feb 2010
1,196 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak1001 View Post
You won't be taking the mCPX outside much either. Due to its small size you'll be limited to flying it in windless or almost windless conditions.
I fly mine outside just about any time I get the urge the mcpx can handle quite a bit of wind. maybe you are confusing the mcpx with the mcx
skyeblu is online now Find More Posts by skyeblu
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion mSR to mCP X transition Nomad57 Micro Helis 23 Dec 31, 2011 07:07 PM
Discussion Quick MSR/MCP-X question... bp_968 Micro Helis 10 Oct 23, 2011 06:28 PM
Discussion MCP X VS Genius CP??? gaaunapoi Micro Helis 6 Sep 19, 2011 05:47 PM
Mini-Review mCP-x Nano 300mAh vs. Hyperion 250mAh vs. E-flite 200mAh McMoron Micro Helis 10 Jul 18, 2011 07:23 PM
Discussion Struggling with my next step: msr or mcp x bunger Beginner Training Area (Heli-Electric) 36 Feb 22, 2011 10:58 AM