Sep 29, 2011, 09:02 PM  
n/a Posts

Re: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Yes maybe. It's an opportunity to shape the event. As a rulebook event it would possibly gain participants in new venues.
It's a great event, and part of evolution, which we need. Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 19:55, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: > No I haven’t Rob – but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for that? > > > > Jim > > > > From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM > To: rcse@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > > Jim  > > Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for consideration as a rulebook event? > > > > Thanks for the good work > > Rob Glover > > > > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program… Then I’ll run my stats and see if it still looks as good… > > > > Piece of cake… J > > > > Jim > > > > From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mike@themapsmith.com > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM > To: rcse@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > > And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim. > > > > Mike > > > >  Original Message  > Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am > To: RCSE <rcse@googlegroups.com> > > > > Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered > the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you > described and to specifically score F3K comps. > > I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article > about it soon. > > Happy Landings, > > Don > > > On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote: > > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie > > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I > > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has > > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for > > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete > > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and, > > of course frequency conflicts. > > > > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and roundbyround > > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within > > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like > > that. > > > > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it > > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it > > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until > > you are satisfied. > > > > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home. > > > > Happy Landings, > > > > Don > > > > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele29002701...cabinethanger... > > > > > > > > > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > >  Original Message  > > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net> > > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am > > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :) > > > > > > > > > > Here are the constraints: > > > > > 1. There are 10 teams > > > > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots). > > > > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round) > > > > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member. > > > > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix > > > > > > > > > > Here is what I have attempted so far: > > > > > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 14 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round. > > > > > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so. > > > > > ... > > > > > read more » > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  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Sep 29, 2011, 09:08 PM  
n/a Posts

Re: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Cool. Holler if I can help or aid and abet.
Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 20:08, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: > I’d be happy to give it a shot… > > > > Jim > > > > From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:03 PM > To: rcse@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > > Yes maybe. It's an opportunity to shape the event. As a rulebook event it would possibly gain participants in new venues. > > > > It's a great event, and part of evolution, which we need. > > Rob Glover > > > > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 19:55, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: > > No I haven’t Rob – but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for that? > > > > Jim > > > > From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM > To: rcse@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > > Jim  > > Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for consideration as a rulebook event? > > > > Thanks for the good work > > Rob Glover > > > > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program… Then I’ll run my stats and see if it still looks as good… > > > > Piece of cake… J > > > > Jim > > > > From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mike@themapsmith.com > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM > To: rcse@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > > And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim. > > > > Mike > > > >  Original Message  > Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am > To: RCSE <rcse@googlegroups.com> > > > > Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered > the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you > described and to specifically score F3K comps. > > I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article > about it soon. > > Happy Landings, > > Don > > > On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote: > > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie > > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I > > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has > > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for > > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete > > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and, > > of course frequency conflicts. > > > > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and roundbyround > > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within > > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like > > that. > > > > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it > > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it > > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until > > you are satisfied. > > > > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home. > > > > Happy Landings, > > > > Don > > > > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele29002701...cabinethanger... > > > > > > > > > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > >  Original Message  > > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net> > > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am > > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :) > > > > > > > > > > Here are the constraints: > > > > > 1. There are 10 teams > > > > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots). > > > > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round) > > > > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member. > > > > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix > > > > > > > > > > Here is what I have attempted so far: > > > > > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 14 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round. > > > > > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so. > > > > > ... > > > > > read more » > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  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Sep 29, 2011, 09:08 PM  
n/a Posts

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
I'd be happy to give it a shot.
Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:03 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations Yes maybe. It's an opportunity to shape the event. As a rulebook event it would possibly gain participants in new venues. It's a great event, and part of evolution, which we need. Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 19:55, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: No I haven't Rob  but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for that? Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations Jim  Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for consideration as a rulebook event? Thanks for the good work Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program. Then I'll run my stats and see if it still looks as good. Piece of cake. J Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mike@themapsmith.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim. Mike  Original Message  Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am To: RCSE <rcse@googlegroups.com> Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you described and to specifically score F3K comps. I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article about it soon. Happy Landings, Don On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote: > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and, > of course frequency conflicts. > > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and roundbyround > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like > that. > > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until > you are satisfied. > > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home. > > Happy Landings, > > Don > > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote: > > > > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele29002701...cabinethanger... > > > > > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances. > > > > > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Mike > > > > > >  Original Message  > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net> > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :) > > > > > > Here are the constraints: > > > 1. There are 10 teams > > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots). > > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round) > > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member. > > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix > > > > > > Here is what I have attempted so far: > > > 1. Pure random  for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 14 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round. > > > 2. Random with statistical preference  I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so. > > > ... > > > read more >  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. 


Sep 29, 2011, 09:25 PM  
n/a Posts

Re: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
If you do Jim, give it another name, not F3J, make it F3W, F3J is for human
tow. Just my 2 cents. Jerry On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Jim Monaco <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: > I’d be happy to give it a shot…**** > > ** ** > > *Jim* > > ** ** > > *From:* rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of > *Rob Glover > *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:03 PM > > *To:* rcse@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations**** > > ** ** > > Yes maybe. It's an opportunity to shape the event. As a rulebook event it > would possibly gain participants in new venues. **** > > ** ** > > It's a great event, and part of evolution, which we need. > > Rob Glover**** > > ** ** > > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 19:55, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote:*** > * > > No I haven’t Rob – but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for > that?**** > > **** > > *Jim***** > > **** > > *From:* rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of > *Rob Glover > *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM > *To:* rcse@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations**** > > **** > > Jim **** > > Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for > consideration as a rulebook event?**** > > **** > > Thanks for the good work > > Rob Glover**** > > **** > > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote:*** > * > > Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make > it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and > the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to > export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into > his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import > back into my program… Then I’ll run my stats and see if it still looks as > good… **** > > **** > > Piece of cake… J**** > > **** > > *Jim***** > > **** > > *From:* rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of > *mike@themapsmith.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM > *To:* rcse@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations**** > > **** > > And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.**** > > **** > > Mike **** > > **** > >  Original Message  > Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am > To: RCSE <rcse@googlegroups.com> > > > > Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered > the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you > described and to specifically score F3K comps. > > I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article > about it soon. > > Happy Landings, > > Don > > > On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote: > > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie > > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I > > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has > > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for > > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete > > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and, > > of course frequency conflicts. > > > > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and roundbyround > > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within > > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like > > that. > > > > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it > > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it > > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until > > you are satisfied. > > > > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home. > > > > Happy Landings, > > > > Don > > > > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jim, try gliderscore here... > http://absupply.net/hafele29002701...cabinethanger... > > > > > > > > > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, > evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program > similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal > should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of > times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw > out recurrances. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have > his RCGroups contact. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > >  Original Message  > > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net> > > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am > > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J > events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have > always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have > any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest > possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of > tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against > another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the > sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to > improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a > programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :) > > > > > > > > > > Here are the constraints: > > > > > 1. There are 10 teams > > > > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots > a BYE will fill the empty slots). > > > > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a > round) > > > > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly > against another team member. > > > > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix > > > > > > > > > > Here is what I have attempted so far: > > > > > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team > every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I > then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 14 and assign the > flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams > have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round. > > > > > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I > calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run > 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I > compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. > For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then > add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average > standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates > the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum > standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so. > > > > > ... > > > > > read more » > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.**** > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.**** > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.**** > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.**** > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.**** > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.**** > >  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RCSE" group. > To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. >  *Jerry Miller* Medford, OR  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. 


Sep 29, 2011, 09:43 PM  
n/a Posts

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Totally with you. J
Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Miller Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:26 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations If you do Jim, give it another name, not F3J, make it F3W, F3J is for human tow. Just my 2 cents. Jerry On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Jim Monaco <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: I'd be happy to give it a shot. Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:03 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations Yes maybe. It's an opportunity to shape the event. As a rulebook event it would possibly gain participants in new venues. It's a great event, and part of evolution, which we need. Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 19:55, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: No I haven't Rob  but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for that? Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations Jim  Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for consideration as a rulebook event? Thanks for the good work Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program. Then I'll run my stats and see if it still looks as good. Piece of cake. J Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mike@themapsmith.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim. Mike  Original Message  Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am To: RCSE <rcse@googlegroups.com> Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you described and to specifically score F3K comps. I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article about it soon. Happy Landings, Don On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote: > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and, > of course frequency conflicts. > > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and roundbyround > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like > that. > > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until > you are satisfied. > > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home. > > Happy Landings, > > Don > > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote: > > > > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele29002701...cabinethanger... > > > > > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances. > > > > > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Mike > > > > > >  Original Message  > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net> > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :) > > > > > > Here are the constraints: > > > 1. There are 10 teams > > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots). > > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round) > > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member. > > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix > > > > > > Here is what I have attempted so far: > > > 1. Pure random  for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 14 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round. > > > 2. Random with statistical preference  I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so. > > > ... > > > read more >  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <mailto:rcse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  Jerry Miller Medford, OR  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en. 


Sep 30, 2011, 11:02 AM  
n/a Posts

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Jim,
For what it's worth I agree with Mr. Glover J needs winches. Buzz Averill From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Monaco Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:08 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations I'd be happy to give it a shot. Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:03 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations Yes maybe. It's an opportunity to shape the event. As a rulebook event it would possibly gain participants in new venues. It's a great event, and part of evolution, which we need. Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 19:55, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: No I haven't Rob  but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for that? Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Glover Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations Jim  Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for consideration as a rulebook event? Thanks for the good work Rob Glover On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote: Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program. Then I'll run my stats and see if it still looks as good. Piece of cake. J Jim From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mike@themapsmith.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM To: rcse@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim. Mike  Original Message  Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am To: RCSE <rcse@googlegroups.com> Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you described and to specifically score F3K comps. I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article about it soon. Happy Landings, Don On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote: > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and, > of course frequency conflicts. > > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and roundbyround > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like > that. > > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until > you are satisfied. > > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home. > > Happy Landings, > > Don > > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote: > > > > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele29002701...cabinethanger... > > > > > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances. > > > > > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Mike > > > > > >  Original Message  > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net> > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :) > > > > > > Here are the constraints: > > > 1. There are 10 teams > > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots). > > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round) > > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member. > > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix > > > > > > Here is what I have attempted so far: > > > 1. Pure random  for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 14 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round. > > > 2. Random with statistical preference  I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so. > > > ... > > > read more >  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RCSE" group. To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rcse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rcse?hl=en.  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