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Old Oct 02, 2013, 01:20 AM
APM Copter Developer
Italy, Emilia-Romagna, Ferrara
Joined Apr 2009
193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by djberna View Post
When I tried "shaking" it using the aileron and elevator stick, in two seconds one of the motors los sync and the bird went down.
Thanks!
As I have written many times this is a bug also present in older versions of the firmware, the fast pwm changes with high-voltage motors can often happen, but stranger with 4S, can be seen clearly with 6S.
However don't use the version "2013/09/20" but this one.
You are welcome to the "loses sync club"...
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Last edited by Marco67; Oct 02, 2013 at 01:35 AM.
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Old Oct 02, 2013, 08:02 PM
Registered User
Uruguay, Flores, Trinidad
Joined Oct 2012
26 Posts
Thanks Marco. I downloaded the file but these are all .inc. How do I convert the one that I need to .hex to use the kkflashtool?
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Old Oct 03, 2013, 01:53 AM
Master of Flash
LazyZero's Avatar
Alsdorf/Eifel, Germany
Joined Jun 2005
1,565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by djberna View Post
Thanks Marco. I downloaded the file but these are all .inc. How do I convert the one that I need to .hex to use the kkflashtool?
You have to compile the sources using avra (needs to be version 1.3)
Or use the hex files in the attached archive

Christian
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 01:30 PM
member of TheBlindHawks
careyer's Avatar
Joined Feb 2011
183 Posts
Okay, I've:
- build the HEX files from the up-to-date sources via AVRA 1.3
- flashed my Hobbyking F-30 UBEC ESCs
- Changed Motors to Tiger Motors 3506-25 650kv
- Running at 4S and 1245 CFK Props.

and I still get those snyc problems on fast PWM changes also with the latest SimonK compiled from sources.

Tried WiiESC instead and it looks way better. Under heavy load changes it sounds like it also gets sync problems but it recovers from that very quickly. SimonK instead does not find a way out of this problem.

Cheers!
Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by careyer View Post
WARNING: SimonK ESCs can fail on certain types of disc motors

Hello Simon,

lately i found out that ESCs flashed with your awesome firmware make serious trouble on disc type brushless motors with high pole counts. On quick changes of load (as they occur most of the time from a flightcontroller) the motor will suddenly run out of sync and kinda stall. The motor will keep spinning but making a crank noise and loosing almost all of it's thrust.

It happend to me very shortly multiple times while just hovering.
When i started to put my Quad through its paces I sadly lost it for this reason (totally destroyed, front left motor stalled) - but hey: sh*t happens. We stand together and can hopefully work out a solution =)

I did some tests with some motors and different sized SimonK ESCs. On those high pole count disc motors any of the SimonK ESCs failed.

See a short demo video which I've filmed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDDRDaCm8Tc

For detailed information of the motor and ESCs used see the Youtube video description. I also checked the current draw of the motors. It was 16amps at full throttle.. I tested with 20A and 30A ESCs. Both show the same problem.
Both work just fine on another disc motor with less poles under the same test.

Is there any chance you can fix that problem? Those motors run really really nice and efficent with almost no vibration at all... but it's to risky to keep flying them at the moment.

Best regards and keep up the god work
Thomas
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Last edited by careyer; Oct 04, 2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 02:47 PM
g0t rabb1t?
ABLomas's Avatar
Lietuva, Vilnius
Joined Jul 2011
1,498 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by careyer View Post
SimonK instead does not find a way out of this problem.
There's more stuff to do. Sense filtering caps, for example...
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 03:08 PM
steve
f11music.com's Avatar
Brazil
Joined Nov 2010
241 Posts
Does anyone know what the correct FW to use for this ESC?

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...C_4A_UBEC.html

I'm using kkMulticopter Flash Tool 0.72 and have tried BS v2013-09-20 which is what I think it indicates here: http://wiki.openpilot.org/display/Doc/RapidESC+Database

I also accidentally tried BS 40A by mistake but the motor stuttered. Then I flashed BS v2013-09-20 but the motor starts to spin as soon as I plug in the ESC and if I leave it plugged in it starts to smoke the motor.

Strange thing is I've flashed 8 of these for my Octo months ago and didn't have a problem but now can't remember which firmware I used.
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 03:47 PM
Registered User
New Zealand, Canterbury, Christchurch
Joined Dec 2012
1,419 Posts
It does appear to be bs.hex. I would guess you damaged the ESC when you flashed it with the wrong firmware to begin with
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 05:32 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,372 Posts
I could use a little help.


Bare with me, because I am not as smart as you guys concerning these matters.



I bought these ESC's about a year an a half ago, (or longer).


I think they were flashed with a bootloader, so in my mind; That means it can be reflashed with the current firmware by using the jst, and not having to connect to the board.

Is that correct?
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 06:45 PM
Registered User
Australia, NSW, Bowral
Joined May 2013
842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post
I could use a little help.


Bare with me, because I am not as smart as you guys concerning these matters.



I bought these ESC's about a year an a half ago, (or longer).


I think they were flashed with a bootloader, so in my mind; That means it can be reflashed with the current firmware by using the jst, and not having to connect to the board.

Is that correct?
Your picture is not very clear... but then you probably didn't put much effort into it.

It looks like a HK F-20A. If it is, and if you want to use SimonK, you must load the current firmware using an ISP connection.

Owen
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 06:59 PM
Registered User
Australia, NSW, Bowral
Joined May 2013
842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by f11music.com View Post
Does anyone know what the correct FW to use for this ESC?

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...C_4A_UBEC.html

I'm using kkMulticopter Flash Tool 0.72 and have tried BS v2013-09-20 which is what I think it indicates here: http://wiki.openpilot.org/display/Doc/RapidESC+Database

I also accidentally tried BS 40A by mistake but the motor stuttered. Then I flashed BS v2013-09-20 but the motor starts to spin as soon as I plug in the ESC and if I leave it plugged in it starts to smoke the motor.

Strange thing is I've flashed 8 of these for my Octo months ago and didn't have a problem but now can't remember which firmware I used.
It is a HK F-40A ESC, I use it and it uses bs.hex.

Get the detail right, there is no module callsed BS 40A. The module for a BS 40A ESC is bs40a.hex for all N FETs, and as you found out, it is incompatible with the F-40A ESC.

Paying attention to detail will improve chance of success with less risk of damage.

Owen
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 08:09 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,372 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
Your picture is not very clear... but then you probably didn't put much effort into it.

It looks like a HK F-20A. If it is, and if you want to use SimonK, you must load the current firmware using an ISP connection.

Owen
Sorry Owen.

My camera doesn't like Macro

I think you are correct in the model.

They were flashed with Simon K firmware, but I am having a little problem.

I have started using the 19 pole motors on my Quad, and they don't like to start all of the time.

Sometimes they just get stuck in the startup phase, and I have to spin them to get them started.

I have followed this thread, for some time, but only from the surface, not paying a lot of attention to the details. (most of you guys discussions are a little over my head).

I understand that Simon addressed some of these issues in a newer version.


The first step is to know if I have to use the pads on the board, or if by having the bootloader, I can load the new version through the JST plug.

Thanks in advance for your help.

-Mike
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 08:37 PM
Registered User
Australia, NSW, Bowral
Joined May 2013
842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post
...
They were flashed with Simon K firmware, but I am having a little problem.
...
My experience was that there was a defect in the bootloader, and the defect was fixed around April or May. That defect might cause grief in loading new firmware, try it and see if it works.

Owen
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Last edited by OwenD; Oct 04, 2013 at 08:59 PM.
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 08:45 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,372 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
My experience was that there was a defect in the bootloader, and the defect was fixed around April or May. That defect might cause grief in loading new firware, try it and see if it works.

Owen
OK, now I know what I have to do.

Thank you

-Mike
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 09:34 PM
Registered User
Australia, NSW, Bowral
Joined May 2013
842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post
OK, now I know what I have to do.

Thank you

-Mike
It looks from the log like the problem existed between 8/3/13 and 7/4/13 (d/m/y), the problem prevented the bootloader updating itself.

My own practice is to put a good bootloader on the chip and protect it with the lock bits. Then, I only create modules without the boot loader, and write them usign the bootloader.

You don't have to do the last bit if the bootloader is protected, because even if you attempt to overwrite it, it wont be overwritten.

I have done litterally hundreds of loads with the April bootloader, and NEVER a hitch.

Protecting the bootloader means I have to use ISP to replace it, but it means it can't be easily damaged using the bootloading facility.

Owen
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Old Oct 04, 2013, 10:13 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,372 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
It looks from the log like the problem existed between 8/3/13 and 7/4/13 (d/m/y), the problem prevented the bootloader updating itself.

My own practice is to put a good bootloader on the chip and protect it with the lock bits. Then, I only create modules without the boot loader, and write them usign the bootloader.

You don't have to do the last bit if the bootloader is protected, because even if you attempt to overwrite it, it wont be overwritten.

I have done litterally hundreds of loads with the April bootloader, and NEVER a hitch.

Protecting the bootloader means I have to use ISP to replace it, but it means it can't be easily damaged using the bootloading facility.

Owen
So, since mine were flashed before that, then the bootloader should be good?


I was wondering then; what interface I would use for this...

I have a castle link. Would that work?


-Mike
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