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Old Jan 22, 2013, 03:36 PM
manuLRK
Belgium
Joined Sep 2004
1,529 Posts
Haaa, you are there , wait i try...

manu
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonk View Post
Sorry, apparently it's difficult, since somebody else couldn't get it, either. I made this: http://0x.ca/sim/tmp/pwm_deadband.asm Does that help?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 03:58 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2011
249 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonk View Post
Eep. Probably not bad motor, probably not related to joining BECs. I do this all the time, and it works fine for me. I have a quad with these ESCs, BECs joined, and it works just fine. Are you sure you flashed "bs.hex" to them and not "bs_nfet.hex"?
I'm pretty sure I flashed the right FW. Two of he ESCs that died now have been doing their job nicely in another hex (I had to take them from that hex over to this new ESC-eating Y6 when replacing some of the ESCs it had already eaten).

I am waiting for a new batch of motors (TGY 2211 2300kv this time) and a new batch of ESCs. Will flash them all wih the same bs.hex, rebuild the Y6 and report back. When testing the 1510-motors on an old TGY Plush I can see that they struggle during start and some times just vibrate instead of starting. But they're not killing the Plush.

But, I've done a lot of acro flying with small quads running those 1510 on 3S with both 6A and 10A SimonK-flashed ESCs. So I still don't understand why they would suddenly die.

Could -10 degrees celcius be the reason?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 04:17 PM
manuLRK
Belgium
Joined Sep 2004
1,529 Posts
Nop

Tested on regulated power supply (8.4V 3A max)

On 10A tp.hex, 4nops, 8, 10, 20 nops : motor starts, amps get up rapidly, voltage drops from 8.4 to 5V, fets get really hot

On turnigy 10A tgy.hex, 0nops, 4, 8, 10, 20 nops : motor strats, stops brutally, restarts, ..., at restart amps get up, voltage stays +-8v, fets get quite warm

both don't have external osc.

Its a lost case those n/p fets?
Gould you guide me to do other tests?

Thanks,

manu
PS: and the gimbal esc drive? ....
These guys get it quite well done...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=ch2iRCWZfKc#!

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonk View Post
Sorry, apparently it's difficult, since somebody else couldn't get it, either. I made this: http://0x.ca/sim/tmp/pwm_deadband.asm Does that help?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alll View Post
Haaa, you are there , wait i try...

manu
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Last edited by alll; Jan 22, 2013 at 04:27 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 04:48 PM
Registered User
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Joined Jan 2004
122 Posts
I honestly think I've checked everything 5 times! AAARRRRGH

Hi all,
I'm sorry to be another to bring annoying questions to the table but could you guys have a look at something for me please?

I'm getting the " target doesn't answer. 1 " error with the KK flash tool.

I was using an improvised press fit tool initially but after many failed attempts I decided it would be better if I soldered the connections direct to the board.

The ESC is a recently bought HK F30A with the light blue shrink and orange and blue label.

I'm using the HK 6pin usbasp which has worked fine on my KK controller boards up to now.

Nearly all the stuff I see on here and the internet in general refers to 10 pin USBASPs and since mine is a 6 I looked up the pinout.

I think I pinned everything out correctly and I've resoldered the connections twice to make sure, each time using a continuity tester to check that none of the solder has joined an adjacent pin.

Am I going mad? Have I missed something?
Is my asp likely to have some weird pinout? I did put just the asp into a usb port and find the +5v in the place the diagram indicated.

You can see in the attached photos from the colours on the wires which way I have the connection from esc to asp.

Also you don't have to power the ESC during the process do you?

Any help to restore my sanity would be gratefully received!
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Last edited by maddog7; Jan 22, 2013 at 04:53 PM. Reason: added info
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:05 PM
manuLRK
Belgium
Joined Sep 2004
1,529 Posts
Remove the +5Vdc and power up the board via the power wires
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog7 View Post
Also you don't have to power the ESC during the process do you?

Any help to restore my sanity would be gratefully received!
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:11 PM
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Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alll View Post
Remove the +5Vdc and power up the board via the power wires
Alll,
Would that be an alternative way to power the Atmega? What I'm asking is, should it have worked the way I had it? and is your suggestion a diagnostic alternative?

I've tried removing all the pins from the esc now and it does not work at all.

I don't know maybe if I allowed the initial press fit connector to slip during my first attempts and have bricked the esc?

Cheers D
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:27 PM
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New Zealand, Canterbury, Christchurch
Joined Dec 2012
1,419 Posts
Your programmer may or may not power the chip itself to flash it, my ASP Mk II doesn't, and so when I flash ESC's I power it up using a 9v battery first, then flash it. ASP Mk II's also have a 6 pin header (I made a little adapter board using some vero board and headers)
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 06:13 PM
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Joined Jan 2004
122 Posts
Thanks for the reply Wendo,
It it likely that if it flashes my KK board without power, it should flash the ESC without power or does it not necessarily work that way?
Cheers
D
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:22 PM
Registered User
New Zealand, Canterbury, Christchurch
Joined Dec 2012
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If you can flash the KK without power I would expect it to do an ESC without power too. That means your programmer can and does supply 5v internally, which should be enough
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:29 PM
crashology student
Ontario, Canada
Joined May 2008
116 Posts
maddog7, I went through the same frustration ... my solution:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=617

Be sure to remove the jumper on the USBasp ... and replace it after you are done.
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Last edited by rshep; Jan 22, 2013 at 07:32 PM. Reason: jumper
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:53 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2012
2 Posts
Hi,

I have flashed my HK Blue series with bs_N. Everything appears to be working fine!
I there a reason for the very low beep volume? I find it very difficult to hear the beeps even in a very quiet workshop.
I am running Turnigy NTM2826 motors.

Thanks.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:58 PM
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Canada, ON, Merrickville-Wolford
Joined Jun 2012
835 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonk View Post
...
Hmm. So, I added this check and automatic calibration disabling on purpose, since otherwise you can accidentally calibrate them if testing with a weak power source. Probably what is happening is not that you are connecting the battery poorly, but that the capacitor is holding a charge long enough for the AVR to stay alive enough to remember that there was a brown out. This always happens as the voltage drops low enough for the oscillator to stop, but then current draw may be so low that you may need to wait a long time for the capacitor to discharge, or poke the capacitors around the ATmega8 with some tweezers/wire to discharge them completely.

Unfortunately, there is no way in software I can make this work any differently other than removing the check.
...
Just checking to make sure I have this straight. If I were flashing F20's (or 30's, or any ESC??) and wanted to make sure they worked before I flashed (I had a DOA F20) I need to be careful to make sure the caps are fully discharged after the initial test before I flash them then? Would disconnecting the battery and then shorting the input wires together accomplish this? Or is it a case of test them all, go away for a while (hour, day??), and then have a flashathon?

Thanks in advance.

cheers,
Andrew
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:02 AM
hacker
Canada, BC, North Vancouver
Joined Dec 2010
935 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eirikso View Post
I'm pretty sure I flashed the right FW. Two of he ESCs that died now have been doing their job nicely in another hex (I had to take them from that hex over to this new ESC-eating Y6 when replacing some of the ESCs it had already eaten).

I am waiting for a new batch of motors (TGY 2211 2300kv this time) and a new batch of ESCs. Will flash them all wih the same bs.hex, rebuild the Y6 and report back. When testing the 1510-motors on an old TGY Plush I can see that they struggle during start and some times just vibrate instead of starting. But they're not killing the Plush.
Do they work indoors when you first flash it? I hope you are testing on a current-limited supply of some sort before you hook up the LiPo. A ~6V-12V wall wart or small "laptop-like" supply is probably better than nothing. They will all fall down and prevent damage if something isn't working right. If you must use a LiPo, connect it in series through a small 12V light bulb.

If the Plush can't start it either, maybe the motor is crap. They look pretty dead easy to get right, though. I don't know what could be wrong.

For the next release, I have added LiPo cell counts and such, and I want to make it detect stuck on high FETs (or wrong board flash), but I'm not sure how to safely report the condition other than just not trying to do anything. It is difficult to detect one FET being stuck on from another without trying to actually beep, but detecting wrong high side inversion or a stuck-on high side is easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alll View Post
Nop

Tested on regulated power supply (8.4V 3A max)

On 10A tp.hex, 4nops, 8, 10, 20 nops : motor starts, amps get up rapidly, voltage drops from 8.4 to 5V, fets get really hot

On turnigy 10A tgy.hex, 0nops, 4, 8, 10, 20 nops : motor strats, stops brutally, restarts, ..., at restart amps get up, voltage stays +-8v, fets get quite warm

both don't have external osc.

Its a lost case those n/p fets?
Ohh. I don't remember you saying you were going to try it on cruddy P/N boards. For those, it pretty much is a lost cause. You will probably need waaay more nops, to the point where it will make the interrupt so slow and max throttle bump so big that it will just be silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alll View Post
PS: and the gimbal esc drive? ....
These guys get it quite well done...
Hehe, the AQ is not even moving even without the gimbal. But yeah! The brushless gimbals certainly look to be working well. Only so much time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog7 View Post
I'm getting the " target doesn't answer. 1 " error with the KK flash tool.
As others have said, make sure you power the ESC separately. Yes, you can get away with it sometimes, but the ESCs have bigger capacitors and sometimes it doesn't work. Worse, sometimes it can brown out while it's flashing, and I think it can get into a state where it forgets the flash address and writes over the fuses instead.

Also, check that the cable to your usbasp actually has ground connected! I've seen more than a few now that literally run the black wire to an "NC" pin. This means it doesn't actually connect ground, and the only way it works is by relying that pulling down reset sort of connects the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo5 View Post
Just checking to make sure I have this straight. If I were flashing F20's (or 30's, or any ESC??) and wanted to make sure they worked before I flashed (I had a DOA F20) I need to be careful to make sure the caps are fully discharged after the initial test before I flash them then? Would disconnecting the battery and then shorting the input wires together accomplish this? Or is it a case of test them all, go away for a while (hour, day??), and then have a flashathon?
Hmm, I've never had a problem myself with the F-20A boards. The voltage sense resistors and other things typically drain it almost instantly. If you make a solid connection to it from a power source, it should not give the brown-out beeps. Make sure you are not indirectly leaking power into it through some other source, like a powered servo tester or usbasp. Does anybody else have this problem? I could remove the check again, I suppose...
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:03 AM
manuLRK
Belgium
Joined Sep 2004
1,529 Posts
The USPASP does not always provide enough power to program. So connect Miso,Mosi,Clk,Rst and GND and provide power via power wires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog7 View Post
Alll,
Would that be an alternative way to power the Atmega? What I'm asking is, should it have worked the way I had it? and is your suggestion a diagnostic alternative?

I've tried removing all the pins from the esc now and it does not work at all.

I don't know maybe if I allowed the initial press fit connector to slip during my first attempts and have bricked the esc?

Cheers D
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Last edited by alll; Jan 23, 2013 at 12:16 AM.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:07 AM
James not bond
jy0933's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined May 2012
2,074 Posts
error for bs12A

@Lazy&simon
i dont know if you remember about the different mcu BS12A i asked before? here's the error I got from it

esc: hkbs 12a
the mcu is Atmega8-16AU 1206 (regular ones came with atmega8A with the A)
tool, the socket tool from HK... works fine with other hkbs12a

Code:
Flash the firmware from repository.

E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\lib\avrdude\windows\avrdude.exe -C E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\lib\avrdude\windows\avrdude.conf -p m8 -P usb -c usbasp -B 8 -e -U lfuse:r:E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\tmp\/lfuse.hex:r -U hfuse:r:E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\tmp\/hfuse.hex:r 

avrdude.exe: set SCK frequency to 93750 Hz
avrdude.exe: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update.
avrdude.exe: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: Device signature = 0x1e9307
avrdude.exe: erasing chip
avrdude.exe: set SCK frequency to 93750 Hz
avrdude.exe: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update.
avrdude.exe: reading lfuse memory:

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: writing output file "E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\tmp\/lfuse.hex"
avrdude.exe: reading hfuse memory:

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: writing output file "E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\tmp\/hfuse.hex"

avrdude.exe done.  Thank you.


E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\lib\avrdude\windows\avrdude.exe -C E:\ProjQuad\Esc\kkt\lib\avrdude\windows\avrdude.conf -p m8 -P usb -c usbasp -B 8 -e -U lfuse:w:46:m -U hfuse:w:202:m 

avrdude.exe: set SCK frequency to 93750 Hz
avrdude.exe: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update.
avrdude.exe: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: Device signature = 0x1e9307
avrdude.exe: erasing chip
avrdude.exe: set SCK frequency to 93750 Hz
avrdude.exe: warning: cannot set sck period. please check for usbasp firmware update.
avrdude.exe: reading input file "46"
avrdude.exe: writing lfuse (1 bytes):

Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: 1 bytes of lfuse written
avrdude.exe: verifying lfuse memory against 46:
avrdude.exe: load data lfuse data from input file 46:
avrdude.exe: input file 46 contains 1 bytes
avrdude.exe: reading on-chip lfuse data:

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: verifying ...
avrdude.exe: 1 bytes of lfuse verified
avrdude.exe: reading input file "202"
avrdude.exe: writing hfuse (1 bytes):

Writing |  ***failed;  
################################################## | 100% 0.02s

avrdude.exe: 1 bytes of hfuse written
avrdude.exe: verifying hfuse memory against 202:
avrdude.exe: load data hfuse data from input file 202:
avrdude.exe: input file 202 contains 1 bytes
avrdude.exe: reading on-chip hfuse data:

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s

avrdude.exe: verifying ...
avrdude.exe: verification error, first mismatch at byte 0x0000
             0xcf != 0xca
avrdude.exe: verification error; content mismatch

avrdude.exe done.  Thank you.

Error during reading of high fuse.
Flashing of firmware aborted.

thanks
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