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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Aros View Post
I sent my contact the synopsis of all the fine ideas covered here in recent pages. Brandon, I hadn't heard from my contact in a while. Well they were on holiday (they have some lengthy holidays there!) and Austin and Yolanda are not in the decision-making circles as far as I know.

Like any manufacturer I imagine, what gets their immediate attention isn't an email suggestion but video evidence of a crash that could have had safety implications that is making the rounds online. Again, I do give them credit for jumping right on the problem.
When I sent them a email telling I had been personally injured, they told me to go to the company that sold me the plane (osmot in germany).
I have a strong feeling their involvement has something to do with your connection with them. They sure weren't this sympathetic with me, let alone sending me a new plane or even a hub.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
$259? You may have other items in your cart. Think when I checked it shipped to CA was $112 (2wk shipping) and $145 ( 3day min - 1wk max shipping). So either way your looking @ $500- $550 shipped, Yikes!
Agreed-Hoping BH will get them soon to save on shipping. Yep. I inadvertently had double clicked and had two Corsairs in my cart !!!
Still surprised that BH is not showing a promo or anything on them. Makes me wonder if they are shying away from the 1.7m stuff if sales are off, as the P40 & P47 are discounted they may not be moving very well.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:31 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
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BM,

From all this investigative work and stuff over the 1.7m line of planes, I think FMS owes you a plane or 2 or some aluminum retracts at the very least.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by struggleforlife View Post
When I sent them a email telling I had been personally injured, they told me to go to the company that sold me the plane (osmot in germany).
I have a strong feeling their involvement has something to do with your connection with them. They sure weren't this sympathetic with me, let alone sending me a new plane or even a hub.
I have to agree with you on that, and I'm glad he's got their attention on this
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 02:46 PM
Fly & Have Fun..Enjoy the Ride
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Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
BM,

From all this investigative work and stuff over the 1.7m line of planes, I think FMS owes you a plane or 2 or some aluminum retracts at the very least.
Thanks for the thought and the supprort , But, No FMS doesn't "Owe" me anything....I did what I 've done because I enjoy it and the shareing with others and others shareing with me.

That is of course with the exception of the replacement Improved retracts for the prior faulty ones they sent me some time ago that I video recorded.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by struggleforlife View Post
When I sent them a email telling I had been personally injured, they told me to go to the company that sold me the plane (osmot in germany). I have a strong feeling their involvement has something to do with your connection with them. They sure weren't this sympathetic with me, let alone sending me a new plane or even a hub.
Oh make no mistake, I am well aware of my "Street Cred" with them. If I wasn't involved in designing their 2012 product catalog and product boxes, nor have the visibility I seem to have on RCG, I'm quite sure I would not have an audience with one of their top people as I do.

I am very, very fortunate to be in my situation and a day doesn't go by that I fail to realize that.

Glad to see my design skills are paying off somewhere if not in my bank account, LOL!!
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:35 PM
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Aros that's great that you have that kind of influence as a result of your business relationship with them. Bottom line however, is that it's all about the customer, and there's a lot more and/or potential customers than there are business associates. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know when I say that! Look at my situation, I have the same airplane that you did with potentially the same defective prop hub and right now I'm afraid to fly it because of that issue. I've now sent them two e-mails and so far nothing from them! Maybe they'll respond, I'd like to think that they will as the professional and quality organization that you feel they are, we'll see!
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:47 PM
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I don't think FMS is any different when it comes to direct email communications with their customers than any other manufacturer. Whether it's LX or FMS or anyone else. Even as a business associate, I too have gone weeks without hearing from them. The reasons have been everything from illness to weddings to holiday breaks and simply being too busy to respond in a timely fashion to emails.

Normally, manufacturers have their distributors be their middle men and women of communication between them and their customers. I'm not thinking this is some radically new paradigm. Horizon Hobby, PW-RC, RC-Castle, Banana Hobby, Tower Hobbies, etc, etc...These are the places the manufacturer's expect the customer to go through when there is an issue with their product. I just so happen to be in a rare position with a company who's product I love to fly.

I am very lucky like I said, to be in the position I have been. FMS has been very good and receptive towards me. They seem to appreciate both my designs and my feedback I offer - be it my own or being a mouthpiece for the masses in the RCG Foam Warbird community. However, even I can spend weeks waiting for a response. This is usually in large part to how busy they are working on perfecting their models and improving safety and quality. I know how important we are to them and that is why they work so quickly to fix a problem and to improve their product.

I would hesitate to equate the amount of time it takes them to respond to one of our emails - or even a complete lack of response - as a sign that they are ignoring our concerns and issues. They are not set up like a distributor with a tech support/customer service staff. Their entire existence in predicated on manufacturing and improving their product.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't sound like an excuse.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:07 PM
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Fair enough Aros, as I said I'll be a bit more patient and hopefully they'll respond, if not I guess my other avenue would be to contact Raymond at RC-Castle.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Aros that's great that you have that kind of influence as a result of your business relationship with them. Bottom line however, is that it's all about the customer, and there's a lot more and/or potential customers than there are business associates. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know when I say that! Look at my situation, I have the same airplane that you did with potentially the same defective prop hub and right now I'm afraid to fly it because of that issue. I've now sent them two e-mails and so far nothing from them! Maybe they'll respond, I'd like to think that they will as the professional and quality organization that you feel they are, we'll see!
i would also send an email and link of video to Raymond @ Rc-castle and I'm sure he would get a faster response back to you. As Aros stated and hit it on the button they are the manufacture not the distributor and often let their middle man deal with that part. Not saying they won't respond, but it may take a bit.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:55 PM
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Fair enough Aros, as I said I'll be a bit more patient and hopefully they'll respond, if not I guess my other avenue would be to contact Raymond at RC-Castle.
Honestly orvel, I'm curious as to why you're not going to RC Castle in the first place? My situation is a rare circumstance. If I was purchasing these planes via a distributor, it is the distributor I would be going to. Just curious.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Is it just me or does this not remove the uneasy feeling about the prop/hub design. In one day they "fixed" the problem? How do they know it is now fixed. They don't even have one yet to test, none the less verify that it is fixed. What about the material of the prop itself? We don't know for sure that the hub is the only culprit. I was just about to pull the trigger on one of the F4U's, with another purchase of the P-51 or P-47 later this year. But I think I will hold off for now.


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Hey guys, I just got this response from FMS tonight...(I edited for grammar).

"...I am very sad about your loss because of the bad design of the hub spinner. It is a sad thing to know it and it is a must for us to modify the hub. To solve this problem, we have redesigned the hub yesterday in a short time and sent the drawing to the molding factory already. We have to wait about 8 days to get the new hub but we will push them to speed up and finish it. The new Hub design is much better and stronger than the previous one, moreover, the material will be better than before. I feel sorry and shamed for your loss, we have decided to send you a new F4U PNP to you after the new hub is ready, please let me know if it is ok for you. This is a terrible thing which makes us reconsider a lot about the design and safety issue. We haven't made any big models like the 1700 before, so this is totally our problem that we don't have a whole testing for all the process. We held a meeting to discuss this issue and FMS will pay more attention to every process and think more about the design. Thank you again for you feedback and hope the new hub will be ready ASAP to let you fly again."

I knew FMS would get right on this issue and they have. I'm glad to be the guinea pig as long as the issues get fixed. I'll take one for the team any day. LOL...
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:45 PM
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Is it just me or does this not remove the uneasy feeling about the prop/hub design. In one day they "fixed" the problem? How do they know it is now fixed. They don't even have one yet to test, none the less verify that it is fixed. What about the material of the prop itself? We don't know for sure that the hub is the only culprit. I was just about to pull the trigger on one of the F4U's, with another purchase of the P-51 or P-47 later this year. But I think I will hold off for now.
I believe much is lost in translation personally. Most the time I am heavily editing these quotes from my contact as English is not their native language. I caught that too but I'm quite sure they have figured out what improvements need to be made to end the stress fractures. This won't be a final fix (technology and safety measures are continuously being developed) but it should put a stop to exploding props. Other issues will need to be addressed long term (complete new method of locking the props in place) and some short term (stronger hub not susceptible to stress fractures, moving the hub forward a couple mm's on the shaft).
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jayxer View Post
Is it just me or does this not remove the uneasy feeling about the prop/hub design. In one day they "fixed" the problem? How do they know it is now fixed. They don't even have one yet to test, none the less verify that it is fixed. What about the material of the prop itself? We don't know for sure that the hub is the only culprit. I was just about to pull the trigger on one of the F4U's, with another purchase of the P-51 or P-47 later this year. But I think I will hold off for now.
Yes, the situation has provoked some responses that leave me to know how you feel. I've posted with some persistence to get points firmly stated so that they might not proceed with a hasty solution to get the commentary to die down. It's a very critical area. Injuries from model plane accidents have drawn some very shattering law suits in the past and of course the suffering that goes with it. The marketing these planes get sends them into an area where the uninitiated will get involved at the risk of an unseen peril to well being.

And, I agree, the blade material may need a rethink too though the spinner equipped models don't have quite the danger present in them. I was looking at getting the Corsair maybe next year but will not go there unless it meets the criteria of meeting the implied promise of the manufacturer that it is suitable for the use it's intended for without such risk as we see here.

I don't have reason, however, to doubt their ongoing sincerity to produce what's needed to give these more integrity. Their willingness to keep up contact with Aros and others on RCG is a testament to that.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:55 PM
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I agree that the short term fix should not be considered the long term fix. I think the short term fix will be a hub made of stronger material eliminating the immediate cracks and prop destruction we are seeing. Continued research and development for the props and hub needs to be engineered and manufactured for any future versions of these larger-sized warbirds. I haven't seen this problem in any of the 1400 or smaller models.
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