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Old Feb 09, 2012, 11:42 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
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Originally Posted by PHMX View Post
Not quite true, you'll see that not having them level at mid-stick will always give you unequal pitch range for positive and negative pitch directions. It simply means the three servo push rods do not get the swash plate high or low enough for a truly mechanically neutral setup.

They may not look like they are doing much, but they are in fact quite essential.
Sorry - disagree. if they are essential how does this work ?



they are purely there to lock the head to the swash rotationally, they have no effect on the pitch at all - they pitch is determined by the swash / rotor grip movement. There are many FBL head that don't use them and lock the head / swash in othe rmanner - e.g. mcp-X + early Protos heads use the swash to rotor link rods
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 12:46 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
Joined Feb 2011
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That's not what I'm implying there though. The mixing arms have a secondary function for setup. They should be level, because then you've got the optimal height of the swash plate.

So, as a rule of thumb, it really should be level.

In that sense it's essential, as much as it's essential to aid in countering rotational forces.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 01:07 PM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
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OK, one last go since you're obviously not going to believe me (and it must be boring everyone else) .... Skookum don't think that it is essential either ...



This is from a Skooum document entitled "How to Convert a Trex 450 for Flybarless Flight with the SK360" . As I said before - I think that it looks much neater if the arms are flat at half stick and move symetrically, but it is not "essential"
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 02:33 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
Joined Feb 2011
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It's not actually about the arms, it's about the setup and how you use those arms to get the swash height correctly.

You seem to be reading into my words there, again.

You are also still wrong that an asymmetrical mechanical setup doesn't matter and I sure as heck know those flybarhead units without the "mixer arms" (most of them do have lower mixer arms by the way) you're thinking about still require equal positive and negative pitch range.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 03:18 PM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by PHMX View Post
It's not actually about the arms, it's about the setup and how you use those arms to get the swash height correctly.

You seem to be reading into my words there, again.

You are also still wrong that an asymmetrical mechanical setup doesn't matter and I sure as heck know those flybarhead units without the "mixer arms" (most of them do have lower mixer arms by the way) you're thinking about still require equal positive and negative pitch range.
Yep - I think that we are not understanding each other, obviously having symetrical positive and negative pitch is preferable - especially if you intend to go inverted .

I didn't say that asymetrical pitch isn't important (again it is fine for flying in Normal, though I would always set up for fundamental symetrical set-up and use the pitch curve to reduce the negative pitch). What I said is that it is not essential to have symetrical movement of the mixing arms (if fitted) on a flybarless heli
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 05:57 PM
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United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
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Originally Posted by ZeroPitch View Post
Got my HK-450TT Pro put back together with the all-silver Tarot 450FL flybarless head and ZYX 3-axis gyro this last week. Boy is she lookin' sexy ;-)

Here's a pre-maiden checkout-flight, showing just how easy it is to use the Tarot ZYX programming card to make adjustments at the field. Tweaked pitch range, cyclic gain, and agility to get a much better feel and response.

It's a bit on the boring side, but hope you get a laugh out of the opening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnKLfgoZ74

By the way, I suggest you do NOT try to mount the gyro on top of the receiver and squeeze them both inside the frame... not enough room and vibes will totally screw things up: tried to put her in a hover and she was pitching and yawing spitting angrely about 30 degrees at a time... very lucky I put her down in one piece! Anyway, mounted both gyro and rx outside the frame, and life is now good ;-)
Nice flying Pitchup
So where did you start on cyclic total gains? and where did you end up? Have you tried any of the advanced Cyclic gyro adjustments?
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 06:58 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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North West Louisiana
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Semantics

Do also bear in mind that, unless your blade grip arms are the same radius as the inner swash, there is built-in pitch differential - though on the average setup, it amounts to only about 3%.

The swash locker arms on my HK 450 Pro are not level at 50% collective - With the head set low, using the upper bolt hole, I prefer to set the swash to the middle of its range rather than have the locker arms dead level.

I don't think the general rule of setting the arms level applies, since there are a whole range of aftermarket FBL heads being used on helis. It is of course in total contrast to the need to level both the flybar and swash mixing arms on an FB setup.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Ok, I just ran a 3rd battery in my Tarot 500 FBL ZYX. I started with 40 cyclic total gain. It was fine for 2mins. Then I lowered it to 37 and again it was ok for 2mins. Now I lowered it to 34 and same thing, after 2mins it gets bad and starts to move around by itself to the point of almost loosing it.I'm using a pad with insulation plate and another pad. Guess I'll try just one single pad


Just tried a single pad and same thing. This is the third ZYX I've set up but the first with a 500. Don't know what it could be, I don't even know what else to try.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:27 PM
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As long as you have full collective positive and negative without binding the mixing arm don't need to be level. Also it is your linkage from your servos to your swash that determine the swash level not the mixing arms.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 10:52 PM
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United States, WA, Issaquah
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Originally Posted by barnstorm100 View Post
Ok, I just ran a 3rd battery in my Tarot 500 FBL ZYX. I started with 40 cyclic total gain. It was fine for 2mins. Then I lowered it to 37 and again it was ok for 2mins. Now I lowered it to 34 and same thing, after 2mins it gets bad and starts to move around by itself to the point of almost loosing it.I'm using a pad with insulation plate and another pad. Guess I'll try just one single pad


Just tried a single pad and same thing. This is the third ZYX I've set up but the first with a 500. Don't know what it could be, I don't even know what else to try.
sounds like static buildup. Ground your tail box to the boom and the boom to the motor mount.

I have a wire crimped between the left tail shaft bearing and tail box connected to a bare metal spot on the boom under the tail box. Then another wire under the tail servo mount connected to a frame screw that goes into the motor mount. Perfect electrical continuity between tail shaft and motor mount.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 12:04 AM
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2 zyx and 2 USB for sale

For sale 1 brand new zyx still in box 1 brand new USB cable 1 used zyx and 1 used USB cable $90 for all i have decided to move to something else these are located in San Diego so shipping will be less then overseas I will only charge actual shipping cost will add pictures tommrow
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.M View Post
sounds like static buildup. Ground your tail box to the boom and the boom to the motor mount.

I have a wire crimped between the left tail shaft bearing and tail box connected to a bare metal spot on the boom under the tail box. Then another wire under the tail servo mount connected to a frame screw that goes into the motor mount. Perfect electrical continuity between tail shaft and motor mount.
Hey, thanks so much. That's what I forgot to do. I'm sure that's what it is
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 02:06 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by barnstorm100 View Post
Ok, I just ran a 3rd battery in my Tarot 500 FBL ZYX. I started with 40 cyclic total gain. It was fine for 2mins. Then I lowered it to 37 and again it was ok for 2mins. Now I lowered it to 34 and same thing, after 2mins it gets bad and starts to move around by itself to the point of almost loosing it.I'm using a pad with insulation plate and another pad. Guess I'll try just one single pad


Just tried a single pad and same thing. This is the third ZYX I've set up but the first with a 500. Don't know what it could be, I don't even know what else to try.
What is it doing ? The 500 is prone to "nodding" if the HS is too low
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Hey, thanks so much. That's what I forgot to do. I'm sure that's what it is
Nope, that's not it.
After 2 mins I start to loose control, not completely but scary to land. Like the swash returns to level to slowly but only after 2 min. Oh, and the skids start to oscillate a little also after 2 mins. Like the cyclic 3 axis gyro starts to get weak. I sprayed silicone on the belt, scraped the paint off a spot on the boom and ran a wire from the boom to the frame to the motor mount.
It flies great for the first 2 mins. I installed a BEC also thinking that the voltage supplied to servos would be more constant. Changed the way the gyro is mounted and exact same problem. I set the cyclic total gains back to default 40 because it didn't make any difference when lowered to 34. I had zero issues with the 2 ZYX I put on my 450s.
Any ideas?
Thanks
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Last edited by barnstorm100; Feb 10, 2012 at 11:24 AM.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 10:59 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by barnstorm100 View Post
Nope, that's not it.
After 2 mins I start to loose control, not completely but scary to land. Like the swash returns to level to slowly but only after 2 min. Oh, and the skids start to oscillate a little also after 2 mins. Like the cyclic 3 axis gyro starts to get weak. I sprayed silicone on the belt, scraped the paint off a spot on the boom and ran a wire from the boom to the frame to the motor mount.
It flies great for the first 2 mins. I installed a BEC also thinking that the voltage supplied to servos would be more constant. Changed the way the gyro is mounted and exact same problem. I had zero issues with the 2 ZYX I put on my 450s.
Any ideas?
Thanks
What headspeed are you running ?
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