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Old Feb 08, 2012, 03:27 PM
Team Mulikow 3D
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Bill,

I have had it (I can't remember which heli - I've got 4 of these units on helis now), but I think that I put it down to my CoG being off. One of them does this, the other 3 don't - sorry that it doesn't help much, but might be worth checking your CoG.

Mike
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Kam,

The set-up is slightly different for these units - do you have the programming box or the USB Bdongle for the software? The first thing that you should do (or perhaps second after setting the servo type) is use the prog box or software Monitor screen to calibrate your Tx to the FBL unit. Basically you set the Tx to mid-sticks and then use sub-trims to trim the 4 different channels so that you get 0 on the monitor screen. You should then use EPAs to ensure that full left (rudder or aileron) gives you 100% left (use the Tx servo reverse to correct if necessary) then the same for 100% right, then both sticks up and down.

If you haven't done this then you FBL unit may be seing a few points of "down" when you think that it is zero. Hope this makes sense - it is explained (badly) in the manual.

Cheers,
Mike
Mike, just to clarify this, setting up the monitor screen is really not necessary. The gyro takes the Tx stick center, at switch on, as center of travel, so setting up the monitor screen is optional. Setting up the monitor screen really only guarantees equal travel in both directions and most Tx's are really not that far out that you would notice it.

It has to be this way because the gyro can be setup and flown perfectly well without using the program box or PC link, just by programming it with the Tx. This is also the reason you cannot use trim, because the trimmed position is taken as center stick the next time you power the gyro.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 03:47 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
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Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
You don't use EPA to get a flat swash with these units, EPAs are used to match the Tx inputs to the FBL unit, the FBL unit's electronics "should" keep the heli flat - as opposed to EPAs
That's not what I meant there. I meant that end point settings might limit or override servos when compensating so you're not getting a level swash when mechanically it should be.

We were in fact stating the very same thing.

You're of course right about the setup.

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Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
Bill,

I have had it (I can't remember which heli - I've got 4 of these units on helis now), but I think that I put it down to my CoG being off. One of them does this, the other 3 don't - sorry that it doesn't help much, but might be worth checking your CoG.

Mike
The center of gravity doesn't matter, unless it's really way far off. But than you would know, because you'd see a very obvious cause.


A bad center of gravity would only cause drift. Not some kind of oscillating effect.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 03:51 PM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
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BF - maybe it's not essential, but preferable IMHO. I set up my first one of these before the prog box / software came out using the flashing lights,as you say no monitor screen.

The point that I was making was that you don't use EPAs to set the swash flat at each end of travel as you would with a FB heli - I got a bit side-tracked
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:01 PM
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I wouldn't say preferable, I would still say totally optional. Even Benny (Justin's Dad), says he doesn't adjust the Tx subtrims for his Ebar FBL units, which uses the same method as these gyros.

Totally agree about the EPAs. They should only be adjusted if you are setting up the Tx in the monitor mode to obtain equal travel.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Totally agree about the EPAs. They should only be adjusted if you are setting up the Tx in the monitor mode to obtain equal travel.
One addendum to this, is you can use the pitch EPAs to get equal positive and negative pitch. Handy if your pushrods are not quite 90 with the servo or blade arms.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:15 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
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Just in case, I found this quite enlightening. Lengthy, but thorough:
Tarot ZYX 3-Axis Gyro Setup & Programming (40 min 1 sec)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
The point that I was making was that you don't use EPAs to set the swash flat at each end of travel as you would with a FB heli
Yeah, but as mentioned a few times before, you shouldn't actually do so with a FB helicopter either. It will influence servo resolution and performance.

I should clarify that you can use some EPA, but it should really only ever be used for fine-tuning what can't be gotten more perfect through mechanical adjustments. Often times people use it to 'fix' really huge mechanical issues, because they are lazy (or oblivious to the side-effects this can cause).
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:22 PM
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One addendum to this, is you can use the pitch EPAs to get equal positive and negative pitch. Handy if your pushrods are not quite 90 with the servo or blade arms.
No need to! Just adjust the mixing arms mechanically like you should.

Get the swash level at mid-stick. Then adjust all three up or down to get level mixing arms and your pitch will be equal!!

It's really a bad habit to try to fix these kinds of errors through digital trims and crippling servo travel.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:32 PM
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No need to! Just adjust the mixing arms mechanically like you should.

Get the swash level at mid-stick. Then adjust all three up or down to get level mixing arms and your pitch will be equal!!

It's really a bad habit to try to fix these kinds of errors through digital trims and crippling servo travel.
No I don't agree and increasing EPAs do not cripple servo travel.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:39 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
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No I don't agree and increasing EPAs do not cripple servo travel.
I know you think so, but you're wrong.

Perhaps you've never actually tried or experienced this, but you'll really have a lot smoother control and more optimal performance if you stick to a proper mechanical setup instead of trying to patch it up using trims and EPAs.

Why else do you think you're even supposed to level anything?
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:45 PM
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I know you think so, but you're wrong.

Perhaps you've never actually tried or experienced this, but you'll really have a lot smoother control and more optimal performance if you stick to a proper mechanical setup instead of trying to patch it up using trims and EPAs.

Why else do you think you're even supposed to level anything?
You can be very rude. I'm not going to waste my time explaining this to you.

For others. Just ask yourself why the beastX allows you to set both the positive and negative pitch range. Then look at the angle of the blade arm pushrods on a 250 with a Tarot or Microheli head. Then you can work it out for yourself.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:53 PM
Team Mulikow 3D
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Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Mike, just to clarify this, setting up the monitor screen is really not necessary. The gyro takes the Tx stick center, at switch on, as center of travel, so setting up the monitor screen is optional. Setting up the monitor screen really only guarantees equal travel in both directions and most Tx's are really not that far out that you would notice it.

It has to be this way because the gyro can be setup and flown perfectly well without using the program box or PC link, just by programming it with the Tx. This is also the reason you cannot use trim, because the trimmed position is taken as center stick the next time you power the gyro.
Mine doesn't work quite like this - it takes note of the input from the Tx, but doesn't take it as centre.

Try this, power up, set full up trim - the FBL unit will give a lot of swash angle and leave it there (as still getting an input). Now power all off, power up Tx an dRx again, and swash levels at centre stick - and then gives some swash angle again, not as much as before - but it certainly isn't taking it as centre stick.

It may be that my test is not valid, but so far as I can work out this says that the FBL unit would see a non-zeroed input from Tx the as a valid input. Unless the standard "RC deadband" is a large value so that it ignores this possibility.

I'm confusing mself now
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 04:58 PM
Never trust laughing dolphins
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You can be very rude. I'm not going to waste my time explaining this to you.

For others. Just ask yourself why the beastX allows you to set both the positive and negative pitch range. Then look at the angle of the blade arm pushrods on a 250 with a Tarot or Microheli head. Then you can work it out for yourself.
Where am I being rude? I'm just being persistent.

I'm also very convinced about being right. I know the difference between both ideologies of setting up a helicopter. I've tried and seen so myself.

The setup of the BeastX works a tad differently, but the goal will still be getting an equal pitch travel up and down. Ask yourself why you'd ever want an unequal pitch range. Especially when a proper mechanical setup means you do not have to 'fix' any flaws to begin with.

Just because you can adjust EPA for whatever Rx channel, doesn't mean you should use it in a certain specific and wrong way.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 05:18 PM
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Mine doesn't work quite like this - it takes note of the input from the Tx, but doesn't take it as centre.

Try this, power up, set full up trim - the FBL unit will give a lot of swash angle and leave it there (as still getting an input). Now power all off, power up Tx an dRx again, and swash levels at centre stick - and then gives some swash angle again, not as much as before - but it certainly isn't taking it as centre stick.

It may be that my test is not valid, but so far as I can work out this says that the FBL unit would see a non-zeroed input from Tx the as a valid input. Unless the standard "RC deadband" is a large value so that it ignores this possibility.

I'm confusing mself now
Possibly you trimmed outside of it's acceptable limit. Full trim is a long way off center.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 08:11 PM
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No need to! Just adjust the mixing arms mechanically like you should.

Get the swash level at mid-stick. Then adjust all three up or down to get level mixing arms and your pitch will be equal!!

It's really a bad habit to try to fix these kinds of errors through digital trims and crippling servo travel.
Not to interrupt, but the last time I looked, my flybarless head DOES NOT HAVE ANY MIXING ARMS! So not much to the mechanical setup beyound getting the servo horns on correctly and setting the swash servo links and up links.

Chill guys.

Terry
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