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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:21 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FyreSG View Post
I've flown around 6 batteries using "3D Soft" preset. Everything seems fine but I'd like to fine tune it. As I don't know how a fine tuned FBL heli feels like, I worried that I would make things worse.

I don't need the heli to be fast or agile, so I'll leave Agility alone. I'm left with Gain set to 40 (I'm guessing as a beginner, adjusting the Gains will be good enough, so I'm not going to look at the Advanced Configuration: PID, Accel, Decel ). I read fblmanual.pdf that states:

Roll gain
Increasing the gain will increase the sensitivity and response speed of the roll axis; and
Decreasing the gain will decrease the sensitivity and response speed of the roll axis.


I'm can't really understand the explanation. How should I increase/decrease the gain? I'm only flying circuits, at the very most, FFF, no flips (yet).
How do you want to fine tune it ? What are you hoping to achieve (more stable, more agle, etc..) I have left mine pretty much standard except tuning agility for response and gains to get rid of wobbles.

What ever you do, save your current set-up before changing anything
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:27 AM
AMA# 548800
jombo's Avatar
United States, CT, Trumbull
Joined Dec 2007
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This is how I have been practicing fine tuning this gyro. If you have Phoenix choose the align 4G 450. This has gain and agility in there . I just fine tune on the real thing with expo and D/R and agility and gain on the first page with the beginner and soft etc page .
But anyway on Phoenix you can see how those settings affect the 450 before you try it for real .
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:33 AM
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Joined Dec 2007
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Yep, Mike beat me to the type .I really should learn to type
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 10:04 AM
KDS450QS(ZYX4),V977,CX-20
FyreSG's Avatar
United States, CA, Monterey
Joined Apr 2012
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I'm trying to make it more stable. I don't know how much more stable it can get, but it already feels more stable than before flybarless conversion. There are no wobbles. Should I increase Gains just before it wobbles? I'm thinking along the line of tail gyro setup, where we increase gyro gain just before the tail wags.

Good idea on testing it out on the simulator. I'll try to reinstall it soon.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 11:14 AM
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United States, CT, Trumbull
Joined Dec 2007
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I just tried this , lower the agility for the cyclic , and raise the gain a few points each time . By lowering the agility it will make the head slower or calmer to inputs while still moving all the way when you move the stick more . I guess you can think of it as an extra expo . By raising the gain it will make it more of heading hold , when you let go of the stick it should want to self level . I didn't touch the tail , just left that the way it was .
All this was done on the front page , never went into advanced menu

edit : almost forgot .
In one of those pages for cyclic movement (swash plate travel) , set it for like 5 degrees . Measure it with a pitch gauge . This will also calm the head a lot . for my head it is set at 25% on both .

Edit #2
You do know how to set the pitch for cyclic ? If you dont , all you do is set the swash to 0 pitch, or center the stick on a normal linear pitch curve , 0,25,50,75,100 . then move the cyclic full throws . aileron pitch will be the blades facing the front , and elevator will be measured on the side of the ailerons .
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Last edited by jombo; Mar 12, 2013 at 11:34 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 11:20 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
4,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyreSG View Post
I'm trying to make it more stable. I don't know how much more stable it can get, but it already feels more stable than before flybarless conversion. There are no wobbles. Should I increase Gains just before it wobbles? I'm thinking along the line of tail gyro setup, where we increase gyro gain just before the tail wags.

Good idea on testing it out on the simulator. I'll try to reinstall it soon.
Yeah that's what I do - if you are feeling really brave you could try the PID's but they seem to be a black art. You could also see ow the stops are affected by the stop settings! But they seem fine to me so I have left well alone. Best thing though is to regularly save the set-up so that you can easily change to a known good set up
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 12:25 PM
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United States, WA, Issaquah
Joined May 2011
1,522 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyreSG View Post
I've flown around 6 batteries using "3D Soft" preset. Everything seems fine but I'd like to fine tune it. As I don't know how a fine tuned FBL heli feels like, I worried that I would make things worse.

I don't need the heli to be fast or agile, so I'll leave Agility alone. I'm left with Gain set to 40 (I'm guessing as a beginner, adjusting the Gains will be good enough, so I'm not going to look at the Advanced Configuration: PID, Accel, Decel ). I read fblmanual.pdf that states:

Roll gain
Increasing the gain will increase the sensitivity and response speed of the roll axis; and
Decreasing the gain will decrease the sensitivity and response speed of the roll axis.


I'm can't really understand the explanation. How should I increase/decrease the gain? I'm only flying circuits, at the very most, FFF, no flips (yet).
Have you read thru my tuning guide?
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=485789
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 12:29 PM
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United States, CT, Trumbull
Joined Dec 2007
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Here is right from phoenix simulator . this is what they say about adjusting these settings on a flybarless controller

Agility
Use this parameter to controll agility of the flybarless system
a higher agility setting will give higher controll throws

Responce setting
Use this parameter to control the responce of the flybarless system
A higher responce setting will make the model respond faster to control inputs

Gain
A lower gain will reduce the flybarless heading hold effect, while higher gains will improve model stability but may introduce unwanted effects such as cyclic bounce/wag and dead band

If i am understanding the new 4.0 software , they mixed the agility and response together. those 2 settings give you the reaction time the gyro takes to respond to a heading hold mode , like a self stabilizer or how long it will take for the gyro to respond to self level . That may be the reason i can turn the gain up and have a low agility and have excellent stability
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 12:38 PM
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Nice job Dr.M. I wish i read that last week
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:36 PM
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United States, WA, Issaquah
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jombo View Post
Nice job Dr.M. I wish i read that last week
thanks. It's never too late to tune your gyro for the feel you're after.

So, who's ready to call ZYX 4.0 better than BeastX?
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:38 PM
An Ordinary User
United States, VA, Fluvanna
Joined Jan 2011
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Thanks Dr. M. I was going to speak up and direct them to your guide.

One of the things that irritates me the most about the numerous FBL vs FB debates is the obligatory "FBL is easier to setup" statement with no instructions on how to do so.

I've now configured 3 FBL controllers (3X1000 and 3X2000) on 3 helis and the first one took weeks for me to configure the way I wanted. Sure it was easy to install the head and get the blades at 0 pitch. Absolutely no question - it was easier. What you don't see mentioned in the "FBL is easier" statement is the "... if you know how".

I was very close to converting my CX BA450 to flybar and forget the whole FBL idea. It shook and it wagged, I was using random PIDs just hoping that something would smooth it out like I knew it could be. Easy? Not by a long shot!

Then I found Dr. M's FBL tuning guide. It only took a few hours of adjusting PIDs and cyclic gains and I love the BA now. So much I bought a FBL CX 450 Pro and a CX 500SE.
Used the same guide to get them setup in just a couple of hours.

Dr. M, I would like to make one suggestion. As I've recently been down the path of trial-and-error, might I suggest that your tuning guide suggest starting the cyclic gain at 30 for digital servos and 20 for analog servos. I had to drop the cyclic gain to 18 for my cheap Solar servos but others report a gain of 25. Starting with these values, tuning should be fairly quick.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:43 PM
KDS450QS(ZYX4),V977,CX-20
FyreSG's Avatar
United States, CA, Monterey
Joined Apr 2012
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Yes, I read that excellent guide over at Helifreak. Thanks Dr.M! I learned how to adjust Accel, Decel, P, I, D, but I'd like to "avoid" them - by adjusting the Gain values. I'm hoping by tweaking that, I could keep things really simple while improving flight stability. The FBL system is still relatively new to me, so I'm making baby steps, one small step at a time. When I'm more experienced, I'll check out Advanced configuration.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:54 PM
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United States, WA, Issaquah
Joined May 2011
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thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'm glad the guide was helpful to you. I'm going to add info on the new cyclic coefficient when I figure out how it works.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 10:00 PM
Registered User
Sweden, Helsingborg
Joined Jun 2012
2,577 Posts
Awesome guide Dr M, Perfect for when im going to set up my first zyx-s this weekend.
I saw the part on static. How worried do i have to be with this on a 250?
Also, this thread needs more 4.0 vids.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 10:15 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,780 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xermalk View Post
Awesome guide Dr M, Perfect for when im going to set up my first zyx-s this weekend.
I saw the part on static. How worried do i have to be with this on a 250?
Also, this thread needs more 4.0 vids.
I'm surprised unochen hasn't posted a couple. Their flying groups seems to be the first to get the ZYX upgrades.

I wouldn't be too worried about static on a 250. I do however use a metal boom holder, just to be safe on mine. With all of my ZYX's I've never had a static problem and never done any anti-static wiring. Perhaps it's the climate here. I do use BEC protection capacitors on most of my helis, but not the 250, due to limited space.
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