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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:04 PM
Registered User
United Kingdom
Joined Sep 2011
366 Posts
Probably not compatible then, but thanks for the reply, its appreciated, I'll put a weak point in the servo arm myself, I bought spare servo arms anyway, I wont be doing any 3D for a while, not really my thing at the moment - thanks again.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 12:21 AM
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Dr.M's Avatar
United States, WA, Issaquah
Joined May 2011
1,522 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmanberthil View Post
I am using futaba 2.4ghz r617fs receiver and no failsafe set up.
The problem is that i can generate the buzzing/shuttering with all three of
the servo's......by switching the servo'slead in the zyx.
I have powered it by my speedcontroller (BEC) and a seperate rx pack.......but that doesn't change anything.

When i plug in cheap towerpro servo's the servo's never shutter.....why is that.?
The strangest thing is that the twitch appears to go away after initialization... Sorry friend, I'm out of ideas with this problem.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 03:20 PM
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The Netherlands, GR, Groningen
Joined Nov 2012
7 Posts
Hi I'm new here and had only read and never wrote a thing. Guess this is time for that.
Thanks all of you for useful info. That made setup of my ZYX-S with no pain

The reason I write is a crash of my HK450 caused by abnormal(I suppouse) gyro behavour. I did only 5-6 test flights to
find correct cyclic and tail gains. That day it was a second battery and I was adjusting tail gain from Tx. The strange
thing that it looks like there was no difference for the gyro when tail gain is from 10 to 70(values like you see them in gain input from Tx
in PC software, tail gain in gyro firmware is 100). Tail was solid and I left gain at 70(it was maximum set by curve on the knob of my Tx). Then I did full right rudder(CCW, with torque). Heli started to spin like creazy CCW and rudder stoped to respond on a stick input.
Luckily that happend a few meters above mother earth with no horizontal speed, so I reduced throttle till very close to ground
(did't gain any horizontal speed - piro optimization performed realy well) and then TH. Basically bent tail boom is only
real damage. Before I've disconected a battery I saw that rudder servo was rotated a 90 degrees from its normal position,
see picture. Home test showed that gyro initializes servo at this wierd position and responds correctly to rudder input
from Tx. Like it is a new zero position. Other electronics performed like it should.

My setup:

ZYX-S with 3.50,
cyclic are Turnigy MG90S,
tail is Corona DS919 - it was making problems for cyclic servos until I used ferrite ring on tail servo, then glitches
gone.

And one more thing: as I was realy eager to fly, but not to test, I did a few circles, pitch pumps...(I'm noob, so no
fancy stuff). In other words flew heli a little - and everything was fine, tail was working like it should.

As a noob I can crash the heli myself and I don't need that extra help from electronic failure So need to know - is it bad gyro or gyro got static or tail servo, magic?

My guess: tail gain of 70 was too much. On the other hand there were no signes that heli doesn't like it - tail solid. Was windy as usual in Netherlands. Pitch pumps didn't seem to bother tail as well. No tail wag, no blowout, no drift.

Have anyone had such an experience?

Had to go abroad - so was no time to test servo or gyro yet, but it seems that glitch not very usual.

I would appreciate your input on the issue.

Best,
Oleksiy.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:59 PM
Looptastic!
sp00fman's Avatar
Enschede, Netherlands
Joined Nov 2009
2,186 Posts
Welcome aboard! Best to test the servo first on a servo tester to make sure it moves smooth. hold the horn down with your finger a little while moving it to see if the motor is still okay. (torque test)|

Stuff like this made me do pre-flight tests on the tail and cyclic every time. Its all to easy to accidentally reverse something doing setups.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:42 PM
Just fly
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Australia, VIC, Glen Waverley
Joined Jan 2011
2,025 Posts
Hey Guys

I'm planning to build my first FLB heli with this unit. Can I use the zyx-s with the standard Turnigy 9X radio (no satellite) or do I need to buy the zyx model?

Also will the USB Program Adapter be enough to setup or is the Program box preferred?

Thanks
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:47 PM
Looptastic!
sp00fman's Avatar
Enschede, Netherlands
Joined Nov 2009
2,186 Posts
The S version comes with a program cable, so it is not really all that more expensive.
The S verion is the same, with the OPTION to run if off a satellite receiver.

The turnigy9X works fine with the gyro. I use the TR6a V2 receiver on my 450 and the stock Rx on the bigger heli. No problems flying really far away.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 05:52 PM
Just fly
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Australia, VIC, Glen Waverley
Joined Jan 2011
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Thanks spoofman for clearing that up.

I thought the "S" was something to do with radios with satellite

Thanks
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:36 PM
Registered User
The Netherlands, GR, Groningen
Joined Nov 2012
7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp00fman View Post
Welcome aboard! Best to test the servo first on a servo tester to make sure it moves smooth. hold the horn down with your finger a little while moving it to see if the motor is still okay. (torque test)|

Stuff like this made me do pre-flight tests on the tail and cyclic every time. Its all to easy to accidentally reverse something doing setups.
Thanks for welcome! Good to be here

Thanks for the advice. Indeed I didn't do finger test right before flight, so I will. But I tested all servos at assembly. Was no problems at that moment.

Then another question: how tail usually behaves when you vary tail gain from lower than perfect to higher than perfect gain? Like in my case from 10 to 70.

Best,
Oleksiy.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:43 PM
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,546 Posts
Gain to low and tail drifts / wags slowly , gain tohigh and tail twitches / pulses back and fort fast.

Tail gain settings depend on servo speed,distance fron center of servo arm to ball (link) size of tail blades, head speed etc.. All three of my 450 HH gain is set in the low to mid fifty range in the Transmitter travel /EPA set at 100% and ZYX set so that tail slider does not bottom out (stall) in either direction.

It is possible that a setting of 10 would let the gyro go into Rate mode instead of HH mode.

Charles
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 09:55 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
4,598 Posts
I prefer to set the controller gain to 100, and set my TX gain in the normal way, since I still like to switch between HH and rate mode. I know that Spoofman sets the controller to 70, and consequently his TX gains will be higher - but the only way to know what gain the servo is "seeing" is to look at the values shown in the ZYX "monitor" screen.

Glad you mentioned the symptoms of low gain, Charles! I've been seeing a 2 or 3 degree wag on my 450, about every 2 seconds or so in the hover. I'm pretty sure it's caused by low gain, since I'm trying to nurse a tail servo that's running hot.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 11:59 PM
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The Netherlands, GR, Groningen
Joined Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Gain to low and tail drifts / wags slowly , gain tohigh and tail twitches / pulses back and fort fast.

Tail gain settings depend on servo speed,distance fron center of servo arm to ball (link) size of tail blades, head speed etc.. All three of my 450 HH gain is set in the low to mid fifty range in the Transmitter travel /EPA set at 100% and ZYX set so that tail slider does not bottom out (stall) in either direction.

It is possible that a setting of 10 would let the gyro go into Rate mode instead of HH mode.

Charles
Thanks for explanations, but being new I probably will not notice such a small moves. Are drifting/bouncing pretty easy to see?

My Tx EPA tail gain channel set as it is required by 1st setup tab of fbl.net.nz software. So when channel at 100% I see 100 in software, when it is 0 then 0, when -100% then -100 in software(I have Turnigy er9x, so full travel of a channel is 200%). Tail gain in gyro controller set by default value - 100. And I don't have rate mode. + and - sign of tail gain channel switches conditions, but stays in HH.

My tail also doesn't stall(bottom out) in both directions.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:56 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jan 2007
4,033 Posts
Oleksiy,

A couple of things, changing a settng from 70 to 10 is a big change - you really need to chage things more gradually, and unfortunately these units do need some tweaking to make them work well, small change - see what difference made, small change - see what difference made etc.. It can a bit boring but unless you take this approach you will probably end up crashing.

The Corona 919 is a bit marginal for the tail of a 450 and as you have found they can very electrically noisy - I found the best low cost servo for the 450 to be the Fitec 9357

Welcome on board,
Mike
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 09:34 AM
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The Netherlands, GR, Groningen
Joined Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
Oleksiy,

A couple of things, changing a settng from 70 to 10 is a big change - you really need to chage things more gradually, and unfortunately these units do need some tweaking to make them work well, small change - see what difference made, small change - see what difference made etc.. It can a bit boring but unless you take this approach you will probably end up crashing.

The Corona 919 is a bit marginal for the tail of a 450 and as you have found they can very electrically noisy - I found the best low cost servo for the 450 to be the Fitec 9357

Welcome on board,
Mike
Mike,

I understand that 10-70 is a pretty big change, thats why for the first flights I had my tail gain knob range only from 28 to 44(around 36 - a starting point recomnded by software setup). I have increased range only due to havn't noticed any difference for gains from 28 to 44.

I use approach you are talking about: every next battery cyclic gains were +5 from 35 and now they are 60 and still no shakes on cyclic. I use 10.5mm cyclic servo arms, like Pani recomended for analague servos and he is right - heli feels very stable compared to 12.5mm with maximum 32 cyclic gains I had before.

Did same for tail(slowly changed gain with knob), but difference in its behaviour was not obvious for me.

And I like tweaking - so it is not boring for me To be honest - I flew one full battery just for fun, but others were tweaking.

I better describe my skills so you can better understand my level. First real heli was/is Blade 120SR - now it is a bit boring, but sometimes still could be very fun - was a perfect training heli for me. Now I practice Bade Nano cpx - can easily fly this bug inside my room with 100%EPA, 30% expo. Almost learned flips with it.

By the way nano has fast tail hunting with small aplitude. It looks, if I understand correctly, like too much tail gain(non adjustable on nano). Nothing similar I see on my 450 with any tail gain.

On this Saturday/Sunday will check electronics and servo closely.

Best,
Oleksiy.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 11:54 AM
Whoops was it always in 2 bits
bionicbone's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Rotherham
Joined Oct 2008
1,247 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naivnij View Post
Before I've disconected a battery I saw that rudder servo was rotated a 90 degrees from its normal position,
see picture. Home test showed that gyro initializes servo at this wierd position and responds correctly to rudder input
from Tx. Like it is a new zero position. Other electronics performed like it should.
Did the servo horn slip on the servo splines? Never seen that happen on a tail servo but its a thought

Kev
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:22 PM
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The Netherlands, GR, Groningen
Joined Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicbone View Post
Did the servo horn slip on the servo splines? Never seen that happen on a tail servo but its a thought

Kev
The first thing I've check - it is nicely secured.

Oleksiy.
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