HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 03, 2012, 06:01 PM
Farmer
United States, CA
Joined Oct 2011
933 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHMX View Post
With all due respect, I'm pretty sure you have no idea how difficult it really is to stick to a specific flight path during hardcore 3D, preventing the helicopter from hitting the ground at all times and at the same time do some pretty mind-blowing tricks. Both in timing and stick control.
And I really do mind-blowing when you first try to get the hang of the control and timing involved.

It's somewhat of a silly claim to state that just banging the sticks will get you there, because it really won't.

Yes, a lot comes down to endless simulator practice (that might start with stick banging in the earliest of stages) and real-life flight routines (that might cost a good few helicopters if you're taking the kind of risks the pros take), but there's no question most if not all of them can really fly 3D at great precision.

This doesn't mean you must like what they're doing, but I think calling hardcore 3D 'mere stick banging chaos' is giving the pros far too little credit.

Of course, hardcore 3D has very little to do with genuine helicopter flying, so if that's what you're really trying to say I can only agree strongly with you.

But to me it's just a different kind of flying. I don't see why I should like one more than the other. Both involve great skill, even when scale flying might look easier to many.

I'm not exaggerating when I claim that many 3D pros never really put effort in proper landings, the showing off part of doing an inverted auto is simply more important to them than the often seen amateurish bounce at the end of a landing.

This doesn't mean they can't land properly in a very soft and scale manner, but they usually don't put much effort in that stuff.

An analogy that comes to mind is simple aerobatic flight in high speed races like they do in Red Bull airplane racing versus long distance sailplane competition.

Rest assured that both take tremendous amounts of skill.
3D is one of the hardest things to learn. !m still really sloppy at it but with time i hope to be more insnync especially down low gets the blood pumping lol
f.a.r.m.e.r is offline Find More Posts by f.a.r.m.e.r
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 03, 2012, 06:01 PM
Farmer
United States, CA
Joined Oct 2011
933 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Hi Simon. That's really strange. I'm very interested to hear if changing the firmware back, fixes the problem.

There is only one older version of the ZYX firmware. It came with the v2.5 app, which is hard to find now, so I've attached it.
hey david great to see you back
f.a.r.m.e.r is offline Find More Posts by f.a.r.m.e.r
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:00 PM
Registered User
Sydney
Joined Aug 2005
79 Posts
Drift

Hoping someone can help me here.....

I have my ZYX-S installed on my trex 450 with firmware 3.5 and 5065 digital cyclic servos. The heli really flies well except for hover which has some drift (left and backwards). I have had about a dozen flights trying to sort it out without any success. Here is what I have done so far:
1. used a swash leveler to make sure swash is 100% level
2. increased cyclic I gains from 100 to 120
3. made sure there is no subtrim on the radio
4. made sure that center stick on the Tx is 0 in the setup menu (step 3. Adjust the signals to be 0 by using the "trim" or "sub trim" in your transmitter when the sticks are centered)
5. secured wiring to minimise transmission of vibrations to the unit

I attached my setup file

What else can I try? Perhaps these units are not calibrated during assembly like the skookum, vbar etc. I listened to a podcast interview with Art Skookum who talked about this. (hope I haven't opened a can of worms here)
RSeeG is offline Find More Posts by RSeeG
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:02 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,912 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by f.a.r.m.e.r View Post
hey david great to see you back
Thanks, Dave. It's good to be back.

Your new video looks good. A pity the memory ran out. I could see you were just warming up.

I did reply to a post of yours a few pages back, as well. You might have missed it. This thread moves pretty fast.

Where are you at with your settings now?
beenflying is offline Find More Posts by beenflying
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:11 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,912 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascar1929 View Post
Trying to figure out my oscillation problem.

I have been tweaking my gain values on roll and pitch and am now down to 20% (3D Soft). I still have an oscillation (shaking like a wet dog) affect when I lift off and as I increase the throttle while in the air. I Can't seem to get rid of it and I think my gains are getting too low.

I haven't messed with any of the advance settings yet.

Any suggestions? My linkage balls are at 12.5mm on the servo arms, Expo at 30% for elev, ail, rudd.

Here are my settings:
If you're already down to 20% gain and it's still shaking then you most likely have a balance problem or a gyro mounting issue. Make sure you balance your blades for CoG and weight.

Also, higher I gains can make the shake worse. Try selecting Hard Core, but lower the cyclic agility to 35 and the cyclic D gain to 10 or 0. As always check all settings after doing this. Let us know how this goes.
beenflying is offline Find More Posts by beenflying
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:15 PM
Registered Flyer
White Bear Lake, MN
Joined Jun 2006
1,113 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSeeG View Post
Hoping someone can help me here.....

I have my ZYX-S installed on my trex 450 with firmware 3.5 and 5065 digital cyclic servos. The heli really flies well except for hover which has some drift (left and backwards). I have had about a dozen flights trying to sort it out without any success. Here is what I have done so far:
1. used a swash leveler to make sure swash is 100% level
2. increased cyclic I gains from 100 to 120
3. made sure there is no subtrim on the radio
4. made sure that center stick on the Tx is 0 in the setup menu (step 3. Adjust the signals to be 0 by using the "trim" or "sub trim" in your transmitter when the sticks are centered)
5. secured wiring to minimise transmission of vibrations to the unit

I attached my setup file

What else can I try? Perhaps these units are not calibrated during assembly like the skookum, vbar etc. I listened to a podcast interview with Art Skookum who talked about this. (hope I haven't opened a can of worms here)
I use a few click of subtrim to correct the same problem you are having. I don't know if you are suppose to use subtrim or not but it has worked for me with out a problem.
FuntanaS is offline Find More Posts by FuntanaS
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:16 PM
Head in the clouds
nascar1929's Avatar
United States, NC, Gastonia
Joined Jan 2012
1,074 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
If you're already down to 20% gain and it's still shaking then you most likely have a balance problem or a gyro mounting issue. Make sure you balance your blades for CoG and weight.

Also, increasing I gain can make the shake worse. Try selecting Hard Core, but lower the cyclic agility to 35 and the cyclic D gain to 10 or 0. As always check all settings after doing this. Let us know how this goes.
Blades are good. Balanced dynamically and statically. I am using a single foam pad that came with the gyro. Is there a better option for the mounting pad?
nascar1929 is offline Find More Posts by nascar1929
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:23 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,912 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSeeG View Post
Hoping someone can help me here.....

I have my ZYX-S installed on my trex 450 with firmware 3.5 and 5065 digital cyclic servos. The heli really flies well except for hover which has some drift (left and backwards). I have had about a dozen flights trying to sort it out without any success. Here is what I have done so far:
1. used a swash leveler to make sure swash is 100% level
2. increased cyclic I gains from 100 to 120
3. made sure there is no subtrim on the radio
4. made sure that center stick on the Tx is 0 in the setup menu (step 3. Adjust the signals to be 0 by using the "trim" or "sub trim" in your transmitter when the sticks are centered)
5. secured wiring to minimise transmission of vibrations to the unit

I attached my setup file

What else can I try? Perhaps these units are not calibrated during assembly like the skookum, vbar etc. I listened to a podcast interview with Art Skookum who talked about this. (hope I haven't opened a can of worms here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuntanaS View Post
I use a few click of subtrim to correct the same problem you are having. I don't know if you are suppose to use subtrim or not but it has worked for me with out a problem.
Subtrim is cancelled out every time you turn the gyro on, so this is not a permanent fix.

Gains too low or vibration are the most likely cause of drift. Make sure your tail is balanced well. Try new tail blades and make sure your main blades are balanced for both CoG and weight.

Lower your cyclic D gains to 10 or 0, I gains to 80 and see if you can run a higher overall gain. If it still drifts, ignore your swash leveling tool and tweak the servo pushrod one turn to tilt the swash plate away from the direction of drift. See if this makes a difference.
beenflying is offline Find More Posts by beenflying
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:28 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,912 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascar1929 View Post
Blades are good. Balanced dynamically and statically. I am using a single foam pad that came with the gyro. Is there a better option for the mounting pad?
Good to hear the blades are ok. Make sure you head is also balanced. No movement in the feathering shaft through the rotor housing (pull the blade holder from each side) and the blade holes are equally out from the center of the head button.

If all is good there, try the setting changes I suggested.

Edit: I've had no problems with the ZYX foam on a lot of helis and different gyros.
beenflying is offline Find More Posts by beenflying
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:41 PM
Farmer
United States, CA
Joined Oct 2011
933 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Thanks, Dave. It's good to be back.

Your new video looks good. A pity the memory ran out. I could see you were just warming up.

I did reply to a post of yours a few pages back, as well. You might have missed it. This thread moves pretty fast.

Where are you at with your settings now?
thanks david i got more video just have to upload to youtube i actually landed then deleted video old videos and restarted that flight lol.. right now my settings are not far off default on the newest firmware update. was having issues with tail blow out but that ended up being mechanical fixed that.. now this thing can take anything i can throw at it... I'm also thinking about trying the hobby mate gyro too seems people like em but i will put that on the 500 i just bought.. loving the zyx-s on my 450 tail will not let go and cyclic is crisp.. I'm new to all this mini helis and 3 axis stuff but was very easy after you gave me the run down david

will post my settings later
f.a.r.m.e.r is offline Find More Posts by f.a.r.m.e.r
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 07:57 PM
Registered User
Sydney
Joined Aug 2005
79 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuntanaS View Post
I use a few click of subtrim to correct the same problem you are having. I don't know if you are suppose to use subtrim or not but it has worked for me with out a problem.
Thanks.... Ill try subtrim on my Idle Up 1 and 2 modes and 0 on my normal mode that I use during initialization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Gains too low or vibration are the most likely cause of drift. Make sure your tail is balanced well. Try new tail blades and make sure your main blades are balanced for both CoG and weight.

Lower your cyclic D gains to 10 or 0, I gains to 80 and see if you can run a higher overall gain. If it still drifts, ignore your swash leveling tool and tweak the servo pushrod one turn to tilt the swash plate away from the direction of drift. See if this makes a difference.
Thanks... my main blades are balanced for CoG and weight. I will try a different set of tail blades. My gains are high as I can get them without oscilation. Ill try your suggested changes to PID settings and the manual swash adjustment.
RSeeG is offline Find More Posts by RSeeG
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 08:07 PM
Registered User
mmracecars's Avatar
United States, MI, Harrison Township
Joined Jan 2012
283 Posts
drift

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Subtrim is cancelled out every time you turn the gyro on, so this is not a permanent fix.

Gains too low or vibration are the most likely cause of drift. Make sure your tail is balanced well. Try new tail blades and make sure your main blades are balanced for both CoG and weight.

Lower your cyclic D gains to 10 or 0, I gains to 80 and see if you can run a higher overall gain. If it still drifts, ignore your swash leveling tool and tweak the servo pushrod one turn to tilt the swash plate away from the direction of drift. See if this makes a difference.
i leveled the swash ,and then adjusted the pushrods while flying to get rid of the drift,didnt take much.
mmracecars is offline Find More Posts by mmracecars
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 09:08 PM
Head in the clouds
nascar1929's Avatar
United States, NC, Gastonia
Joined Jan 2012
1,074 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
If you're already down to 20% gain and it's still shaking then you most likely have a balance problem or a gyro mounting issue. Make sure you balance your blades for CoG and weight.

Also, higher I gains can make the shake worse. Try selecting Hard Core, but lower the cyclic agility to 35 and the cyclic D gain to 10 or 0. As always check all settings after doing this. Let us know how this goes.
The head looks good. No play in the feathering shaft and the distance from the center to blade holes are equal at 41.5mm. If I make this change, should I leave the roll and pitch gains at the default setting (40) to start with?

Also, just ordered a set of CF blades to replace the woodies I'm using. might help too, I hope.
nascar1929 is offline Find More Posts by nascar1929
Last edited by nascar1929; Sep 03, 2012 at 09:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 03, 2012, 09:34 PM
Registered User
mhills51's Avatar
kansas city
Joined Feb 2007
12,494 Posts
Just a heads up I will be putting all my gyros up for sale tomorrow. This is a
ZYX-S with 3.50-s
copterX flashed to zyx3.50
copterX normal but first batch can be flashed to zyx
three hook up leads
one bluetooth with lead
one usb tarot
one copterX hand held programmer will only work with none flashed
one adapter for s-bus

All have been in helis and all seem to work fine. I just don't have the time to play with them anymore. I just want to fly lol! I'm slimming down all my copters to one of each size as well. those will be for sale soon.

Just thought I would give you all the heads up!
mhills51 is online now Find More Posts by mhills51
RCG Plus Member
Old Sep 03, 2012, 09:46 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,912 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascar1929 View Post
The head looks good. No play in the feathering shaft and the distance from the center to blade holes are equal at 41.5mm. If I make this change, should I leave the roll and pitch gains at the default setting (40) to start with?
Sounds good. Start at 25 and if all works well increase 5 points each time. Ideally you want to get to 35-40, if you can.
beenflying is offline Find More Posts by beenflying
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion New ALZRC 3GYS Flybarless System beenflying Mini Helis 644 Dec 07, 2012 04:44 AM
Found Tarot 450 or like, long flybarless feather shafts TubeBarHeli Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 2 Jul 25, 2011 01:13 PM
For Sale New Align 3G Flybarless System V2.1 ptt81 Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 1 Jun 06, 2011 04:55 PM
For Sale New 2 cell esc &motor FBL 4g6 spektromized DSM2 spektrum Sat URondo Flybarless system blueindian Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 May 31, 2011 06:09 PM
Discussion Tarot Flybarless avengedkevinfold Electric Heli Talk 1 May 04, 2011 04:46 AM