SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 20, 2011, 01:36 PM
Registered User
essex uk
Joined Apr 2010
15 Posts
Discussion
Blade 450 3d begginer settings

Hi guys im new to the forum and have to say what ive seen so far it looks great.. Ok my question is ..ive just purchased a brand new blade 450 3d from my local hobby shop, its the bind and fly version, was just wondering if any of you guys could recommend some settings for a newbie to cp heli flying, i will be using a dx6i, thnx in advance for any replies. ( im only a newbie to cp helis by the way, i had a 120sr and could fly with no problems)

Martin
dotster35 is offline Find More Posts by dotster35
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:13 PM
Registered User
sirs69's Avatar
United States, MO, St Peters
Joined Apr 2011
412 Posts
Using the settings in the manual is a good start, but eventually you'll differ from those settings as you get more comfortable flying it. The only thing I could recommend is making use of dual rates and expo. I use negative expo on the B450, but I started out at +20% originally. If you've never flown CP, be sure to tone down the throttle like the book recommends, 70% or so if I recall. If you fly at 100% you're just asking for problems, as a beginner.

Either way, prior to flight always check your wood blades for damage and tail belt for looseness. My B450 tail belt stretched after 15 or so flights, something to watch out for. The wood blades will sheer off/fly apart if they're out of balance or damaged too much, not a pretty sight.
sirs69 is offline Find More Posts by sirs69
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 22, 2011, 03:05 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2011
1,197 Posts
Just go with the beginner settings in the manual. I used the advanced settings on my DX7 (with the corrected addendum) and it was an excellent starting point. A little "soft" for my liking in hard 3D, but absolutely and perfectly flyable. In fact, I flew it about 10 times before I made a single change in the TX. This really is a great helicopter. I tore mine down to inspect it before flying and they did a really good job. Everything was lock-tited, lubed and greased in the proper places. I only needed one turn on a blade grip link to get perfect blade tracking. The rest of the mechanical setup was spot on.
mhunter is offline Find More Posts by mhunter
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 23, 2011, 11:24 AM
Registered User
essex uk
Joined Apr 2010
15 Posts
Thnx for your help and advice guys, i shall certainly go with the intermidiate settings in the manual, would it be worth reducing the pitch and throttle curves even more as i learn to hover? If so what settings would you advise?

Thnx again in advance for any advice.
dotster35 is offline Find More Posts by dotster35
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2011, 11:51 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotster35 View Post
Thnx for your help and advice guys, i shall certainly go with the intermidiate settings in the manual, would it be worth reducing the pitch and throttle curves even more as i learn to hover? If so what settings would you advise?

Thnx again in advance for any advice.
Really no. Warning the following is an opinion

I do not believe in crippling the helicopter for beginners. It is one method of trying to make the machine easier to deal with, but it's not the best method. The biggest problem with beginners is over-control, but crippling the helicopter encourages that - in fact it requires it. When your helicopter is incapable of responding instantly and with precision, you have to be farther ahead of it - and this actually makes it harder to fly. Now, some people like the mushy controls - it prevents them from being able to make the helicopter really do anything at all. I personally do not like mushy unresponsive aircraft, and I think many people must be the same way. When your helicopter reacts instantly and precisely, you have a better chance of correcting mistakes before it gets really bad. When you have mushy controls, you will make a mistake, then have to use "too much" stick input to correct it, and in some cases you may not even have enough control to correct the problem before you crash. IMO, this is a really bad position to put any pilot in, but especially the beginner.

SO, my recommendation is to keep the throttle curves high, use DUAL RATES, NOT CURVES, to reduce the cyclic pitch travel. Do not reduce the collective pitch. Most people don't have trouble managing the power level - it's the cyclic they can't control - so there is very little reason to be flying with low pitch. Use flybar weights, exponential (not too much), and dual rates to make the helicopter move slower with cyclic input, without crippling its power levels or control precision.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2011, 09:10 AM
Registered User
essex uk
Joined Apr 2010
15 Posts
Thnx for your in depth advice and explanation, it really does make sense what you say about not wanting to havin mushy controls, i shall go with the intermediate throttle and pitch curves in the manual, and use dual rates...Wish me luck :-)

Thnx again for your advice.
dotster35 is offline Find More Posts by dotster35
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2011, 11:42 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,449 Posts
I would also suggest having an expert fly your helicopter and make sure the setup is fly-able. I had a guy bring me a Blade 400 once, and he had it set up for "beginner settings" and I instantly determined why he couldn't fly it - he had the throttle set so low that the tail couldn't hold, and the helicopter could not maintain a stable attitude, as soon as you put any cyclic, it would wobble all over the place and not really do what you said anyway. Had to set it down every time I tried to move it anywhere. He had some balance and trim issues so we fixed that, then I put the throttle curve up to my recommended 0-60-70-90-100 curve, and that made it possible to fly - it was still a little mushy but it was working correctly. See the problem was he had the throttle so low the thing couldn't even perform correctly, much less perform well. Beginners don't need crappy performance, they need stable helis which do what you tell them to do, and don't do stuff you didn't tell them to do.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2011, 11:51 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2011
1,197 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Beginners don't need crappy performance, they need stable helis which do what you tell them to do, and don't do stuff you didn't tell them to do.
Exactly... If a beginner is *truly* dedicated to wanting to learn to fly helis, I agree with the recommendation to get a "real" CP heli to start with (as long as they have some help and a sim!) instead of a lot of the "toy" FP helis many recommend. A CP heli can be set up from mild to wild. It can be set up so soft as to almost fly like a FP heli, if so desired. But, the nice thing is once the "beginner" is ready for more advanced flight, EVERYTHING is already there in the hardware to do some pretty crazy stuff, right on up to 3D. Try that with your garden variety 3/4ch high wing trainer airplane... The heli might need a new set of rotor blades, but that's very often not the case. It sure isn't on my Blade 450 3D. I'm sure carbon blades would be better, but the stock woodies work fine, especially since I haven't crashed them...yet...
mhunter is offline Find More Posts by mhunter
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 02, 2011, 11:10 PM
Registered User
United States, IN, Shelbyville
Joined Oct 2011
1 Posts
hello I have a different question hope some one hear can help. I have two full flights on my 450 and I am having a tail problem it wont hold in a steady hover with the gyro gain set to 72 percent I get a slow side to side oscillation. any lower and it will drift to any faster well we all now what happens with the gyro gain to high but I can't figure out why I can't get strong hold on the tail. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
jhartsock is offline Find More Posts by jhartsock
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 03, 2011, 12:09 AM
Illinois
Joined Jan 2005
1,720 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhartsock View Post
hello I have a different question hope some one hear can help. I have two full flights on my 450 and I am having a tail problem it wont hold in a steady hover with the gyro gain set to 72 percent I get a slow side to side oscillation. any lower and it will drift to any faster well we all now what happens with the gyro gain to high but I can't figure out why I can't get strong hold on the tail. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Wagging at 72% is gain to high... expect it to be 60-66%. Make sure your linkage is straight and not binding... and you don't have any major vibrations... Define your drift... generally, the 210 has very low to now drift.

David
dribbe is offline Find More Posts by dribbe
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 04, 2011, 12:12 PM
Registered User
Bladecpnitro's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
411 Posts
I also have a similar question and would like to see a real pro's radio settings on a Trex 450 SE.

What dual rate, expo and servo travel settings does an advanced 3d pilot use?

I realize quicker servos will require different settings. I just moved the Expo on my EXI 450 to -20 on aileron and elevator to quicken it up some and it still seems slow. I'm very interested in getting some more performance out of this thing. Great subject here.
Bladecpnitro is offline Find More Posts by Bladecpnitro
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 04, 2011, 03:11 PM
S.A.D. member
ivanc's Avatar
United States, TX, Round Rock
Joined Dec 2004
9,525 Posts
It also depends on mechanical setup - where the balls are on the servo horns (how far from the center of the servo output shaft).
ivanc is offline Find More Posts by ivanc
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 04, 2011, 07:04 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladecpnitro View Post
I also have a similar question and would like to see a real pro's radio settings on a Trex 450 SE.

What dual rate, expo and servo travel settings does an advanced 3d pilot use?

I realize quicker servos will require different settings. I just moved the Expo on my EXI 450 to -20 on aileron and elevator to quicken it up some and it still seems slow. I'm very interested in getting some more performance out of this thing. Great subject here.
Expo has very little to do with "speed" depending on what you mean. When you say you want it to be faster, I think you mean one of the following two things...

1. The helicopter takes 2 seconds make a complete roll, and I'd like it to take 1.5 seconds.
2. The time between when I move the stick, and when the helicopter reacts, is too long.

Problem one can be solved by: running maximum cyclic pitch, running maximum head speed, putting a longer flybar (yes, longer for more cyclic speed), and lowering the weight of the helicopter. Problem number two can be improved by all those things, but the speed and strength of the servos matters also. These must be balanced - if your servo is really strong, but slow, you get the obvious problem, but if your servo is overloaded then it may not be able to attain the rated speed - so you have to get a good balance of speed and torque.

On my 450 Pro I run a 100-90-100 throttle curve, 25% expo on rudder, 35% on cyclic. This is largely a matter of personal preference though - expo doesn't affect how much control is available, it only affects how quickly it comes in as you move farther from center. Too much expo can be just as big a problem as too little. But expo doesn't affect the total travel of the servos, and if you're trying to increase cyclic roll rate, it has nothing to do with that because you still have full control throws available when you move the stick all the way.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2011, 07:07 AM
Registered User
Bladecpnitro's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
Expo has very little to do with "speed" depending on what you mean. When you say you want it to be faster, I think you mean one of the following two things...

1. The helicopter takes 2 seconds make a complete roll, and I'd like it to take 1.5 seconds.
2. The time between when I move the stick, and when the helicopter reacts, is too long.

Problem one can be solved by: running maximum cyclic pitch, running maximum head speed, putting a longer flybar (yes, longer for more cyclic speed), and lowering the weight of the helicopter. Problem number two can be improved by all those things, but the speed and strength of the servos matters also. These must be balanced - if your servo is really strong, but slow, you get the obvious problem, but if your servo is overloaded then it may not be able to attain the rated speed - so you have to get a good balance of speed and torque.

On my 450 Pro I run a 100-90-100 throttle curve, 25% expo on rudder, 35% on cyclic. This is largely a matter of personal preference though - expo doesn't affect how much control is available, it only affects how quickly it comes in as you move farther from center. Too much expo can be just as big a problem as too little. But expo doesn't affect the total travel of the servos, and if you're trying to increase cyclic roll rate, it has nothing to do with that because you still have full control throws available when you move the stick all the way.
Thanks Jasminy, yes I want to make sure my Heli will flip or roll fast enough not to hit the ground before I get it all the way around because I'm getting ready to do my first backwards flip.

Hey negative Expo does make the Heli cyclic respond much quicker, I don't know how much because I haven't tried maxing out negative Expo but it definitely makes it quicker. One guy runs -40 Cyclic Expo on the blade SR to do 3D, with no flybar weights.

I have these El Cheapo HK 900 servos and they work ok but are noisy and slow.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...cro_Servo.html

Your talking about maxing out cyclic pitch in the swash right?

Some one else said to max out servo travel in the radio, max out Dual Rates, remove flybar weights then add positive expo if it responds too quick around center stick. And if that's not fast enough get faster servos.
Bladecpnitro is offline Find More Posts by Bladecpnitro
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2011, 12:09 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladecpnitro View Post
Hey negative Expo does make the Heli cyclic respond much quicker, I don't know how much because I haven't tried maxing out negative Expo but it definitely makes it quicker. One guy runs -40 Cyclic Expo on the blade SR to do 3D, with no flybar weights.
It's not actually making the helicopter do anything different. When you reduce the expo, a smaller stick movement has more effect, so you feel like it's faster, but it's really not - you are just able to give more input more quickly because you don't have to move the stick as far. Too much expo can give the opposite effect - the heli 'feels' slow because you have to wag the stick all over the place to get any response. It's an illusion - the thing is not really faster, your fingers are "faster" because you're able to give more input with less movement.

Quote:

Your talking about maxing out cyclic pitch in the swash right?
Yes, but don't just raise the swash mix - raise it slowly while you measure the pitch. See if you can get 6-7 degrees of cyclic.

Quote:
Some one else said to max out servo travel in the radio, max out Dual Rates, remove flybar weights then add positive expo if it responds too quick around center stick. And if that's not fast enough get faster servos.
Well, you should already be flying that way. Servo travels should be at or near 100% (sometimes we reduce travel to eliminate CPPM interaction). Dual rates should be on 100% also. If that's not the case, then you're not getting the most out of the machine.

We all fly that way - everything on 100% if possible, and control surfaces maxed-out. If your radio settings are preventing you from using the full capability of the machine, then it has more to give you, you just need to find it. On a new heli, I always set them up mechanically to give me maximum capability - then I use dual rates if it's too much to handle. I sometimes wonder how many people out there buy upgrades they don't need because they have crippled the heli with poor setup.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Blade 450 3D for $250??? mhunter Electric Heli Talk 18 Sep 27, 2011 05:07 PM
Discussion Blade 450 3D and recommended settings in manual mhunter Radios 2 Sep 16, 2011 10:54 AM
Discussion Blade 450 3D and recommended settings in manual mhunter Electric Heli Talk 3 Sep 15, 2011 10:39 PM
Discussion Blade 450 3D and Phoenix Razing0469 Electric Heli Talk 1 Sep 14, 2011 12:04 AM
Alert Blade 450 Bulliten regarding DX7/SE/8 settings in manual dribbe Mini Helis 2 Jun 29, 2011 02:37 PM