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Old Sep 17, 2011, 08:50 PM
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Setting up the F5B gas box when motor ramp is used

I am wondering what procedure everyone is using when setting the motor on function on the Gasbox when the motor has a ramp. Normally you set the motor off position and turn the motor on then press the stop button.
At what point does the Gas box recognise the motors on, when the signal is above the off position or when the signal reaches the full on position.
This can influence whether a motor foul is detected exiting the course or is the full motor run time is counted in the duration task.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 01:21 AM
Cambridge
Joined Sep 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David H View Post
I am wondering what procedure everyone is using when setting the motor on function on the Gasbox when the motor has a ramp. Normally you set the motor off position and turn the motor on then press the stop button.
At what point does the Gas box recognise the motors on, when the signal is above the off position or when the signal reaches the full on position.
This can influence whether a motor foul is detected exiting the course or is the full motor run time is counted in the duration task.
Wait and watch until the numbers stop increasing then press the stop button.
At the eurotour the guys setting up the gas boxes could tell what amount of ramp you usedjust by watching the numbers.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 01:55 AM
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Alan,
When does the gas box start recording the motor when the signal increases above the off position or when it get full on position. If it the full on position then its free motor all the way up the ramp.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 02:09 AM
Cambridge
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Just after the off position point up to full throttle point.
Do you have access to a gas box to try it?
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 02:26 AM
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they are 70 km away. I was going to get the person who currently has them to test it. We were using then yesterday when i noticed the ramp effect but didn't get a chance to find out. thanks
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 02:34 AM
Cambridge
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Think the only issue to be aware of is making sure people with a ramp wait for it to come in fully before pressing the stop button. No idea what happens if the throttle signal is above the set maximum.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 02:54 AM
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Really easy! make one channel mixed directly from the trottle switch. Shure with no ramp and delay. And use 8 or more channel reciver for the gas box.
I have to use 8ch for plane and ch-6 is used for controller, but ch-3 is for gas box.
Clear and easy.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 03:46 AM
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The only thing that will happen if it is calibrated at say half throttle, is that the threshold will be closer to the off position...
When I calibrate my Graupner system, which goes from 36 to 75 on the gas box, the threshold is set to 40...
So David, if you start your ramp that low, the prop will act as a brake anyway, so no way to cheat here!
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 03:51 AM
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The gas box indicates ON (motor foul entering base A) immediately the throttle signal moves off the stop position. There is a known (to Gernot) change in pulse width but it is small.
With ramping is essential that the motor goes rapidly to moderate power, say 3000 W, then a 1 - 2 second rise to full power. If you ramp it slowly right from zero then either the plane will stop in the air or the controller will burn!
So there is not a problem.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 03:57 AM
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Golikov: this sounds like cheating :
Your are giving a different signal to the gas box than to your motor:
This opens another door to manipulation, very easy to program with high end transmitters !!!!
I don't like these discussion about how too cheat the unilog, gas box etc. Too much criminal energy in the wrong direction.
I see we need a CSI team to check all the planes and transmitters after each flight, need to log all channels live during the flight, read out the ESC response to throttle changes... etc.
We need a black box system out of the influence of the pilot...!
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 04:20 AM
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Thanks everyone, I wasn't real sure of the significance of the off and on setting and where the unit changed to on. If it is a small amount as George indicates there is no real problem. I assume the off and on are to determine the direction of the signal.
Jeppe, I wasn't implying cheating, as most competitors have changed to ramping like everyone else and wanted to confirm what to do with the gas boxes so they operate reliably and accurately. I only noticed the issue when we were testing the equipment yesterday. Our team selection is in late October
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mcantoni View Post
Golikov: this sounds like cheating :
Your are giving a different signal to the gas box than to your motor:
This opens another door to manipulation, very easy to program with high end transmitters !!!!
I don't like these discussion about how too cheat the unilog, gas box etc. Too much criminal energy in the wrong direction.
I see we need a CSI team to check all the planes and transmitters after each flight, need to log all channels live during the flight, read out the ESC response to throttle changes... etc.
We need a black box system out of the influence of the pilot...!
Who and how is control this? Different signal? or not?
No one control, means I can do.
Jast becouse (too many way of cheatings in actual F5B rules) I have not flight this year nowhere in europe.

Yes, we need "a black box system out of the influence of the pilot..." better if this system has telemetry signal to jury computer.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 09:52 AM
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Jast becouse (too many way of cheatings in actual F5B rules) I have not flight this year nowhere in europe.
I'm glad I don't compete in F5B anymore, otherwise I would find this comment quite insulting. Just because there are ways of cheating does not mean anyone is cheating. I think you are doing the right thing by staying out of F5B competitions.

Mike
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 10:28 AM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
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Mike, you might find not everyone is that honest as you and me.



But like George writes, the gas box works as it is now if people run ramps.

I don't see why we could not have a device in place with downlink for the next WC but for sure 2014 we should try to have this ready and tested.
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Old Sep 18, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Seale View Post
I'm glad I don't compete in F5B anymore, otherwise I would find this comment quite insulting. Just because there are ways of cheating does not mean anyone is cheating. I think you are doing the right thing by staying out of F5B competitions.

Mike
I didn't tell now if somebody cheat, (and if is, I have no problem to tell about this)

But I dont like to compete with a weak to cheat rules. And I will try to do something to change it.

And I have the same ideas, this is a right thing for me personally.
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