HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 19, 2012, 08:39 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
A pic of the days efforts.

Plus I remodeled 10" props in 3D as I couldn't
find any that I liked on the net.

I also pre-bent the Front Sheeting and test fitted it.
I gotta say, I like the way MPF foam "works" :-)

I also put the parts up for sale for anyone interested in getting a leg up on this project.

See my web site

Bob
Northwest Cutout Service
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 19, 2012, 08:43 PM
Registered User
v22chap's Avatar
United States, IN, Granger
Joined Jan 2003
3,129 Posts
Quote:
I also put the parts up for sale for anyone interested in getting a leg up on this project.
You make resistance harder and harder

great progress .. wish I had the time
v22chap is offline Find More Posts by v22chap
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 08:50 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
Hadn't you heard ?

Resistance is Futile !
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 08:52 PM
Registered User
v22chap's Avatar
United States, IN, Granger
Joined Jan 2003
3,129 Posts
v22chap is offline Find More Posts by v22chap
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 09:34 PM
Registered User
Virginia Beach, Virginia, United States
Joined Jan 2004
635 Posts
Yep resistance is futile!!!! Just ordered one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280900369258...ht_6410wt_1039

Probably order a kit in another week or so since my board won't be here til early july!
pylot2b is offline Find More Posts by pylot2b
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 09:51 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
Ah you got the set with the LCD .

I should be a lot further along by the time you get it .

But I do have to BUG out for 10 days to see Grand kids and DO the Dayton AirShow !
I'll be away form July 3 thru 13 so order accordingly.

Bob
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 10:19 PM
Registered User
Virginia Beach, Virginia, United States
Joined Jan 2004
635 Posts
Funny you should mention the Dayton airshow. I just flew a flight into dayton from detroit last week and they are setting up all the tents and tables. Quite a spread!!

Tyler
pylot2b is offline Find More Posts by pylot2b
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 10:50 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
It's been a Guys get together for me for Years.
Since I moved to the West Coast, anyway.
Me , my boys and now Grand son.

Trying to sell here and move to Indy but NOT in this economy !

Know anybody who wants to live in a nice little town
with a great marina on the Columbia River 40 miles from the Pacific.
Lots of Salmon Seasons and Hunting, Kayaking, Sailing,
boating in general and lots of Yachting too.
Terrific view to the west of the River and the channel.
RC flying on a 2300' grass strip.
ZERO stop lights in the county ! NONE !!! really

Just want to get back to be with Grand kids.

www. balsabuddies.com

Bob
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 10:58 PM
Winging it >
leadfeather's Avatar
Joined May 2006
9,726 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdofplay View Post
I will try Crius multiwiii pcb with all those intrgrated sensors. Baro accel, gyros, mag.

Maybe with sw help from leadfeather or RCVertt.

Today I will be attempting to make Motor mounts from wood.

Bob
Bob,

The first step I would recommend for the controls programming is to write down in ordinary English how each axis (yaw, pitch, roll) will be controlled in each mode of flight. From there it will make it easier for someone to write the code to accomplish what you have asked for. You may want to ( I would) get F&T's input into what works best for each mode on this plane for this first step.
leadfeather is offline Find More Posts by leadfeather
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 2012, 11:15 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
Thanks for the tip Leadfeather.

For my simplistic approach I would try this first:
"Y" everything to both the Multiwii board as well as the "normal" flight surfaces.
The "Normal" surface can "operate" during pure quad flight ops without affect. I think.
So they do NOT have to be deal with or switch on and off.

I would only ask that the Multiwii Fade away EXCEPT FOR MOTOR CONTROL
as Motor tilting begins.
Timing is the KEY and I have NO IDEA what that would be.

I will get everything running before I get too worried about the programming.
But that I mean to take someones previous advise and ...
1. get it to hover and be a QUad
2. Fly forward and be a Canard
3. we'll see

L8r

Bob
I assume that an AUX input could be used to trigger the Fade IN and OUT.
I believe this is what F&T was talking about when he said gyro gain.
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 09:40 AM
Winging it >
leadfeather's Avatar
Joined May 2006
9,726 Posts
Bob, how many servos are you planning to use? There are a lot of control surfaces to move and a lot of motors to tilt.
leadfeather is offline Find More Posts by leadfeather
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 11:01 AM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
I have one for each rudder, to simplify hookups back there.
One for each aileron again to simplify hookups.
One for the elevator up front
and a BIG one for the tilting.

2 ea for rudders "Y"d probably 9gm sized
2 ea for Ailerons "Y"d probably 9gm sized
1 ea for Elevator a bit larger than 9gm or at least MG
1 ea for Tilt I have a 15Kg brut for this

Four ESC's for the four motors.

I could use either a Spektrum DX7 or a Futabe 8FG both have lots of programability.

Simple, and hopefully DO able.

Bob
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 07:49 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
Today I "MADE" carbon fiber PLATE !

I took CF cloth, piled it up 4-5 layers over some sandwitch bag plastic.
Taped the edges all around, Hit it with a generous soaking of thin CA
hit it with a single shot of accelerator and covered it QUICKLY with
more plastic and a HEAVY FLAT THING !

From that I made CF Horns for attaching to the Rotating CF tubes
that will be Tilting the motors.

Pic below
Bob
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:01 AM
Winging it >
leadfeather's Avatar
Joined May 2006
9,726 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdofplay View Post
Thanks for the tip Leadfeather.

For my simplistic approach I would try this first:
"Y" everything to both the Multiwii board as well as the "normal" flight surfaces.
The "Normal" surface can "operate" during pure quad flight ops without affect. I think.
So they do NOT have to be deal with or switch on and off.

I would only ask that the Multiwii Fade away EXCEPT FOR MOTOR CONTROL
as Motor tilting begins.
Timing is the KEY and I have NO IDEA what that would be.

I will get everything running before I get too worried about the programming.
But that I mean to take someones previous advise and ...
1. get it to hover and be a QUad
2. Fly forward and be a Canard
3. we'll see

L8r

Bob
I assume that an AUX input could be used to trigger the Fade IN and OUT.
I believe this is what F&T was talking about when he said gyro gain.
I understand the thinking for the minimalist approach for the control board. Here are some thoughts to help you in the direction of minimal control board programming:

The control board/programming is easiest if there is no mixing of pitch roll or yaw in the Tx. To fly as a quad (which is kind of an anchor point in the control board/programming) it is better not to do any mixing on the Tx which will be complicated to un-mix in the flight control board.

Mixing ( such as for elevons) can easily be accommodated by the controller.

Instead of the Y connectors from the Tx you can plug all of the servo and esc connectors directly into the flight control board. The control surfaces can be simple "pass through" signals or mixed in the control board such as elevons.

In all modes of flight (on this particular design), the control surfaces can be simple non-gyro controlled signals that don;t change whether hovering or flying on the wing.

3 modes of flight I'd recommend

1) Stationary hover. It's basically a quad; the control surfaces are active but there is no air movement so they don;t really have much effect at all.

2) Fast hover. The only change from hover is that the motors are tilted to some angle (about 45 degrees) where it still flies just like a quad... but it is moving forward. The flying surfaces are starting to bite in to the air but the quadcopter/gyro controls still dominate over the control surface in pitch and roll. On my builds I could tilt the motors to about 45 and still have good multiciopter control. After this yaw and roll get weird.

3) On the wing. You can "fade out" the multicopter control as the flying surfaces take over. In this mode the motors and control surfaces respond to pass through signals as if the control board is not there.

The three flight modes are controlled/determined by a switch on your Tx such as the flap switch. Your DX7 has a 3 position flap switch which makes this work well.

In summary, flight modes 1 and 2 above are just simple quad copter flying.
Flight mode 3 is a simple fixed wing with no gyro inputs at all and all motors turning the same speed based on throttle/Tx input.

To minimize the programming a bit more, you can use an external server slower for the tilt servo to slow the tilting down if you chose. Later you can let the programming do this to eliminate the external servo slower.

Lots of way to do it. I think this is the simplest. Hope this helps. If not just hit the ignore button.
leadfeather is offline Find More Posts by leadfeather
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:36 AM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,706 Posts
Wow ! Thanks LF !

You appear to have put a lot of good thought into this.
It's ALL good input :-)

Your idea of pass thru is Great I had not thought of doing it that way. I LIKE IT.

Let me explain my previous thinking a bit more.

Originally, I WAS thinking that I could Not MIX but rather Duplicate the basic functions on
Separate channels, Like ...
Roll Ch2 and Aileron on Ch6
Pitch Ch3 and Elevator on Ch7
Yaw CH4 and Rudder on Ch8

Reserving Ch5 for Hover or Forward flight.
I think it Could be mixed to the Flap switch for 3 positions.

But Your Pass Thru idea makes all that obsolete.

Right now I only have the Crius board and although I have it flying in a Quad
I have NO idea how to program it.

I need to GET INTO the whole Arduino THANG, The Script Thang, and all the def.h stuff .

It am going to look around to see IF I can get a Copy of the Crius ORIGINAL program
and then look into how to modify, compile and test it.

Unless, of course, SOMEBODY already HAS exactly what I am looking for :-)))

I also Like the 3 position idea.

I believe that F&T was "essentially " doing that but just with the Timed transitions (2-3 seconds)
as opposed to actual "detented' positions. ie 90 , 45 and 0 degrees and vice versa.

But for the near term I am enjoying the way this is coming together.

I do have an observation regarding the Torsional issues that F&T was experiencing.

1st. My Twins with similar fuse has NOT had the bomb door cut out and it's STIFF.

2nd. I note that the V44 in flight has the door completely missing resulting in Weak Aft end.

3rd .Not a DIS just an observation - F&T was using Pink fanfold foam. I am using MPF.

4th. My current V44 build seems to be pretty STIFF without that rear Bottom panel glued on
and I expect that it WILL get BETTER when it gets glued on as well as the Top sheeting.

so, I am going to NOT WORRY or add BEEF or WEIGHT to overcome a NON problem IMHO.

Only Time and Flight testing will prove me Wrong or Right !

Bob
birdofplay is offline Find More Posts by birdofplay
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Quad Tilt Rotor - Build Log (Comments & Suggestions Welcome) maxvtol VTOLs 254 Aug 31, 2014 01:53 AM
Discussion QTD- Quad Tilt Duino (Arduino- Tilt Rotor) RCvertt VTOLs 100 Jun 28, 2012 01:15 AM
Discussion Help selecting receivers and transmitters for quad rotor oscioscia Multirotor Talk 5 Sep 06, 2011 02:43 PM
Discussion mcx 5in1 Unit for Roll Tilt Compensation on Quad nicnaimless Multirotor Talk 0 Aug 11, 2010 02:17 PM
Cool WOW!!!! Iphone controlled quad with vid link to iphone, tilt controlled!! helifrek Multirotor Talk 8 Jan 18, 2010 10:23 AM