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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:55 PM
Entropy is happening!
Jim.Thompson's Avatar
Bellingen NSW Australia
Joined Aug 2008
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Suttons hacksaw blades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Moloney View Post
Sounds like it would do a good job but I might need a better hacksaw, my cheapie wanders all over the place. Would you recommend any particular type of blade?

What about one of those oscillating cutters? Been tempted to get one for other tasks as well.
Sean,
I would use a hacksaw as Larrikin suggests. I cut mine with one. Hold it in the vice with some soft jaw pads. Sutton's is a good brand - 24 tooth or even 32. (the 32 tooth might clog up a bit?). There is another good Aussie brand, but I can't remember it.
The uni-carbon sounds like a good way to make a joiner. I used 50k carbon tow which was difficult to lay evenly and to totally eliminate voids. I will try the uni next time.
I tried out one of those oscillating cutters only once. I decided I won't be buying one. Ok for very speciallised cutting perhaps, like PVC pipe. I doubt if it would even touch the carbon based on my trial use of one! Besides, they will not make an accurate/straight cut.

Jim.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 AM
AvB
Wind, hill, ... I'm keen ...
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Australia, QLD, Woody Point
Joined Nov 2006
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The Willow joiner was too long and I had to cut it back. I just used a handsaw, but a good sharp fine one. It's no biggie - it cuts just like wood. Tidied it up with the sanding disc.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:15 AM
Arrarrar!
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Australia, NSW, Wagga Wagga
Joined Jan 2010
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Hey Sean, nice joiner!
I have a saw called a japan pull by Tajima
http://www.tajimatool.com/products/s...w.php?page=all
Its the best saw Ive ever used, and cuts on the pulling action. Its unbelievably accurate and cuts easily through hard wood and thick carbon skins for aileron gaps etc. I reckon it would cut through the joiner pretty accurately. I got it off someone for free so dont know where to get one or how much, but it is great!
Also I have a bosch reciprocating cutter (like the renovator of TV) and it would have to be my equal top used tool, along with the dremel. It might not be good to cut your joiner with but its great for cutting out aileron gaps and even good for scoring the hinge lines, as it doesnt cut the kevlar very easily. It will make cutting out your thick carbon surfaces a bit easier than a stanley knife!
Keep it up mate!
Josh
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:30 AM
Entropy is happening!
Jim.Thompson's Avatar
Bellingen NSW Australia
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh18 View Post
Hey Sean, nice joiner!
I have a saw called a japan pull by Tajima
http://www.tajimatool.com/products/s...w.php?page=all
Its the best saw Ive ever used, and cuts on the pulling action. .........................Also I have a bosch reciprocating cutter (like the renovator of TV) and it would have to be my equal top used tool, along with the dremel.........................................
That saw is just what I've been looking for for cutting out the aileron divisions!
Are they only available by mail order here?

It seems that the blade quality/type is all important for these oscillating cutters! (as with any saw no doubt).
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:55 AM
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SlowBarless's Avatar
Brisbane
Joined Jun 2008
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Jim, Im pretty sure they are also called Razor Saws. I cant remember where I got mine, but it was someplace local. I think veterinary surgeons use something similar to cut bone.

It would take a long time to cut through a wing joiner with a Razor Saw though.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:49 AM
Entropy is happening!
Jim.Thompson's Avatar
Bellingen NSW Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowBarless View Post
............

It would take a long time to cut through a wing joiner with a Razor Saw though.
Yes. Hacksaw for that job I think.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 02:25 AM
Shane Spoor
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Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Sep 2006
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Great to see the 1st part out To get more carbon into the joiner mould try drying the crap out of the carbon with a roller and paper towl before laying up.
Weigh the carbon before and after you wet it so you can get just the right amount of resin to carbon ,around 30% i think it is.
As for cutting it once it drys ,buy a cheap drop saw ,very quick and totally square cut .You will find lots of other uses for it .

keep up the good work.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:06 AM
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
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Hi Sean,
Do you mind sharing how you modelled the wing in Max ? I teach 3DSMax for modelling and animation as part of Cert4 and Diploma Multimedia qualifications and have a reasonable understanding of it.

I use Rhino for wings with a 2-rail sweep with multiple chord-wise sections and that works a treat with 3d snap. Just wondering how you might do the same in Max and maintain a similar level of fidelity. Spline cage modelled with a surface modifier?

Chris.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:03 AM
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Australia, QLD, Elimbah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFragnasty View Post
Hi Sean, I use Rhino for wings with a 2-rail sweep with multiple chord-wise sections and that works a treat with 3d snap. Just wondering how you might do the same in Max and maintain a similar level of fidelity. Spline cage modelled with a surface modifier? Chris.
Yeah ... same.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:33 AM
registered user
Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Sep 2008
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Thats some HI fidelity sh%t ... hehe LOL. I love your pics Sean
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:18 PM
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined Jul 2005
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High speed high feed for cutting carbon. My inverted jig saw table has a diamond blade. Great for cutting carbon plate! Best gift my Wife has ever bought me
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:53 PM
AvB
Wind, hill, ... I'm keen ...
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Australia, QLD, Woody Point
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I've had 3 drop saws. After no. 1 burnt out in old age I got a cheap Bunnings Ozito one and it broke the gears inside in a week. I got a decent Ryobi now and it's great. They tend to come with coarse blades.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:46 PM
It flies!
Sean Moloney's Avatar
Sunshine Coast, Australia
Joined Jun 2007
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Looks like a drop saw might be worth buying, thanks for the advice guys. Might try a hacksaw or handsaw first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh18 View Post
Hey Sean, nice joiner!
I have a saw called a japan pull by Tajima
http://www.tajimatool.com/products/s...w.php?page=all
Its the best saw Ive ever used, and cuts on the pulling action. Its unbelievably accurate and cuts easily through hard wood and thick carbon skins for aileron gaps etc. I reckon it would cut through the joiner pretty accurately. I got it off someone for free so dont know where to get one or how much, but it is great!
Also I have a bosch reciprocating cutter (like the renovator of TV) and it would have to be my equal top used tool, along with the dremel. It might not be good to cut your joiner with but its great for cutting out aileron gaps and even good for scoring the hinge lines, as it doesnt cut the kevlar very easily. It will make cutting out your thick carbon surfaces a bit easier than a stanley knife!
Keep it up mate!
Josh
That looks like exactly what I've been looking for for cutting the control surface ends. Thanks for the tip! Will see if I can find something similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayinInTheParK View Post
Great to see the 1st part out To get more carbon into the joiner mould try drying the crap out of the carbon with a roller and paper towl before laying up.
Weigh the carbon before and after you wet it so you can get just the right amount of resin to carbon ,around 30% i think it is.
As for cutting it once it drys ,buy a cheap drop saw ,very quick and totally square cut .You will find lots of other uses for it .

keep up the good work.
Thanks for the tip Shane, I'll do that next time. A lot of resin oozed out and it was quite messy so any way to fix that would be nice.

I weighed the carbon for this joiner beforehand, it weighed 85g. The finished joiner is 120g. That makes the resin 30% of the finished weight, but as a ratio of carbon:resin it's 100:41. From what you describe it sounds like I have a bit too much resin in this joiner? I was a bit cautious with this one, I had cut more carbon but it really felt like it didn't want to close to begin with. As the excess resin slowly oozed out it closed quite easily in the end. Pretty sure I can go more carbon for the next one.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:57 PM
Entropy is happening!
Jim.Thompson's Avatar
Bellingen NSW Australia
Joined Aug 2008
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Tajima - Aus.

Heres an Aus agent: http://www.toolsthatlast.com.au/

No online ordering though it seems. I'm waiting for an email enquiry back from them.

Any pics of your joiner mould Sean?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:21 PM
It flies!
Sean Moloney's Avatar
Sunshine Coast, Australia
Joined Jun 2007
1,525 Posts
Thanks for the info Jim, I'll be interested to hear about any availability.

The joiner mould was CNCed from tooling board. I don't have a picture, it's not real pretty as we cut around the outside with a saw. I'm not very happy with it and might make a new one, possibly by moulding the solid joiner in the pics I posted. The tooling board really isn't hard enough for a compression mould like this, it can't be heated above 65deg C and we put bolt holes in the flange which was a complete waste of time as they just fill up with epoxy (have used clamps ever since the first light test joiner I moulded).
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