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Old Mar 22, 2012, 04:05 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
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From your initial pic I thought you had your elevons at 90 but I can see now they are raked forward as per the plan.. I think it looks better with the raked elevons.. your blue and white looks real good.. with logos it will be even better
and yours is very quiet .. I like that..
For your COG go 28% measured on the fuz only then adjust the battery till it flies level when inverted..
trim upright..go inverted.. nose drops move the battery back...if you go too far back the nose will climb when inverted..
keep adjusting till its hands off inverted and upright.. thats the spot..
Note if you go rear heavy it will still fly fine, its a funny plane that doesnt become unflyable or even twitchy with a rear COG...

Thats what I like , a relaxing model that can be thrown about as much as you want to.. but it doesnt give you a headache being an easy fly.
try tight in wild flying and some high alpha..
I was doing harriers close in then powering up and away.. that confuses onlookers as they first think its a kite just holding in place..then it goes up and does some wild aerobatics..
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 04:14 AM
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Singapore, Singapore
Joined Oct 2011
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Thanks Dave....and yeah the initial pic was at an angle where any angle is not an angle...urm...did you get that?

Thanks also for the Kite Link. Will be doing some reading and planning. Intend to build a niteflyer for the little field. I know the kids will love it.

Hopefully I can get the stickers done tonight. Finally have the sticker sheets so when all are asleep, daddy can have his time in the study..hehe! Beginning to rain once again here so looks like no flight this evening. Ah well, wake up early tomorrow.

Thanks again Dave. Will revert with updates!
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 04:47 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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yes I get the angle.. and its my fault for not looking better at your pic, because the wing furthest away clearly shows an angle on the elevon...

I just noticed I cracked the rear of the fuz where the cross bar fits to it.. its the landings stressing in that area where I should have taped but forgot..
So always tape the rear end as a minimum.. here Ive now fitted a skid to take any scrapes, rather than landing on the rear of the W
Ive also fitted some braces onto the elevons just in case flexing was the reason/answer to the larger loops problem as I suspect.. The braces are fitted under the horns and simply taped in place .

kites..you are in the right place for them.. clarke quay does the goflykite displays.. they must be good to watch..
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 07:24 AM
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Singapore, Singapore
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No worries on the 'Angle' Dave...not your fault entirely,...hehe. Bad photographic composition not showing enough when it comes to lines...haha!

Did a second test flight, rather a quickie since the rain stopped and all was calm. The change out of control horns made a huge difference and throws are better. I had to lengthen the rudder servo horn a little as the angle I placed the servo didn't allow for more rudder deflection. So thats solved too!
Yes...it is a nice relaxed flyer. Did some low flying test and does well a little below 1/2 throttle near the grass! Loops are still lopsided...it spins outta the loop at the peak and levels off...which was kinds cool really as a new move. I can love with that. Rolls are better and though still slow and relaxed, the W-wing levels out once you center the sticks...Nice! I do need to tape a little on the bottom edges of the W so they can withstand the scraping of grassy landings! The grass here isn't like what you have there and gets hard and scrapy when dry..haha! I did however try out the 3s 750mah pack and she took it without a prob! I can see she could even take on a little more weight...which tempts me to plop on my little keychain cam for the heck of it!! Will see!

I'm glad I took a break from my usual builds and did the W-wing! After the Mini Heart broke, I so needed a relaxed FunFlyer for those lethargic days. I've built too many sport and 3D planes and needed to get back to the Fun builds! I miss the Depron...haha!

I do want to build a nite Kite and probably soon. The temptation is too great! LOL! I do have an EPP Bipe, a Stunt Cat type lifting body and a TLAR pusher jet in the works.

Yeps, Clarke Quay is where they fly as well as another Park in the North of Singapore and above the Marina Barrage, though mostly stringed Kites with lights! Those guys are HUGE and look really beautiful in the nite sky over the city!

It's off to print out the insignia's and hopefully grab another vid of the W-wing tomorrow morning! Till then, thanks again Dave!
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 08:03 AM
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On the W-O-1 and others, The spin out at the top is down to having too much stability and being slightly cross wind in the loop ..more power will pull it right through. otherwise it just pops upright then flies away..

My additional bracing on the W-O-1 didnt tighten up the loop .. so perhaps it wants bigger elevons or more deflection at full up stick.. However it has no problem raising the nose for a hover or harrier, so what do I know?

The extra weight of the skid and bits altered the COG so the battery had to be repositioned to get the inverted and upright flight even..

It was very gusty here today, not pleasant but it coped ok..very much a rocket going down wind , with a very slow up wind travel at a half power cruise.. just hanging there is easy, but it was getting banged about too much for my liking..
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 08:54 AM
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United States, MI, White Lake
Joined May 2011
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On the W-O, I think I'll drop the 1 or other W and just go with W-O or WO...
Perhaps the elevon placement and angle are letting to much air slide off them when trying to do a loop. Maybe if all panels were the same width and the elevons placed on the center panels, it would loop better. Look at my paper templates in post 162 to see what I mean.
Or maybe keep the elevons were they are but have a straight hinge line instead of angled. Something is making them a lot less effective in this design. Once sorted out it should fly well.
The rolls are good because the elevons are one up, one down.
Just thought of something... How does your WO act on outside loops? If it loops good outside but not inside, then we are on the right path to correcting it.

Please try some outside loops and report back. I can't get out to fly mine yet.
As soon as I can I plan to take a pile of batteries with me and do a lot of experimenting :-)

Might have to go to a T tail with top elevator to get it to loop. Hmmm another thought. Mix a rear motor T tail Polaris with the W design...

Danford1
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 09:57 AM
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Singapore, Singapore
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Just a thought, so throwing this in.

Possible to have 2 flaps per side? So you have the standard flap as well as another on the inner panel as well. Linking is a case of 2 arms from the servo to the 2 control surfaces on the left and as well as the right. That way all the air going down the fuse gets deflected. Also the inner flaps behave like a TV effect.

Possible? Hmmm...I may try this as an experiment.

Will admit that the crosswind had an effect as well as not powering through the loop which I normally don't.

@Dan, could the wings being 'W' with it's inherent stability coupled with the control surface you have lessen the authority on the elevator effect? Since I did notice in my initial loops, it does slow down and want to stable out near the top of the loop. A 90degree cut hinge may increase the elevator response I would think. Perhaps the more the flaps are outward the less straight line airflow down the fuse for loops? As you mentioned....that could be the cause. Outdoors my W-wing does loop though with that slow down near top and flipping out...but I never powered through it. Just a thought.
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 10:06 AM
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United States, MI, White Lake
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That is how the Capricorn's are. One servo with two control wires going to elevons on each panel. Easy to do...
Here is a picture of my 65% Cap.
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Old Mar 22, 2012, 06:32 PM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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tomorrow I will do some comparisons between the circle and the heart shape, to see how or if they differ in control responses.. I will also increase the elevator throws on the circle shape..to see if that helps

It is worth experimenting with the elevon angles and wing angles.. but thinking of the nutball, the elevator is bigger in proportion and set at 90 degrees, so that might be a solution to making smaller loops..
The extra fuz based elevons as the above pic is showing, will likely do the trick and will be an easy add on...but will spoil the looks.. so I wont do them..

Personally I am not over bothered as all my flying is done out doors and biggish 10-15ft loops are not a problem.. all the rest of its maneuvers are more than tight enough..

Preflight thought is that the heart shape will loop better as the elevons are definately larger.. The circles shape does limit the size of its elevons, although we could have made that rear cut another inch deeper.. thats a last resort.. to recut bigger elevons ..
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 03:52 AM
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I would think that with elevators in the central section as opposed to outside and at an angle, will make a difference as it is more directional and catches the airflow.
But yeah...it will affect the way the W-wing looks. However I may give it a go to see what the effect is and how much difference it will make. I'll sketch things out to see if the addition can retain the looks without much differ. May have to re-cut the original elevons to flow with the additional flaps. Lemme give it some thought.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 05:35 AM
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I simply took the end point from 100 to 140% for the elevators and it is a lot better... so I will say for the circle W first add another 1"depth to the elevons, then have max travel on the elevator %ages..and less on the aileron %ages
There is no need to add the center elevon sections.. the outers will be fine..

I have just put another 3 batteries through it in perfect conditions... nice...
Tried some inverted loops and they are tighter than upright... any thoughts?

just editing the videos now..
The circle W gets a testing in perfect conditions, todays flight1 (7 min 25 sec)

.
circle W 2nd flight today (3 min 17 sec)
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 06:29 AM
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Now flown the 21" heart again.. Ive got to say this is still my favorite, purely for its easy flying ..
.. It has more area so a lower wing loading and slower cruise..the elevons are bigger and loops are tighter.. inverted hands off, rolls slower than the circle but fast enough..

Both are fine and the circle can be made easy enough to match up with the heart.. the way I make models it will be easier to lower the wing loading by adding area to the circle.. combine that with proportionally bigger elevons and the performance will match the heart..

it then will be your choice on preference for shape only..

videos in process.
Heart shape vs circle shape W wings comparison flight1 (5 min 5 sec)

.
Heart vs circle shapes comparison tests on the W wings (5 min 23 sec)
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 06:37 AM
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Spain, Murcia, Mazarrón
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Hi Dave

I've just spent the best part of a couple of hours reading through your thread and watching the videos. I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed it, and well done on the different designs you've tested out. My favourite so far has to be the new "Circle W", I really like the way she flies, especially the lighter version on 2s.
Thanks for sharing all your stuff Dave, cheers.....
Andy
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Andy....?? 2 cells ??.... I haven't made a lighter version..however a lower wing loading will improve this one
the circle as above is flying on 800mA 3 cells and 4ozsqft..
Ive just been doing comparisons between the 24" circle and the 21" long heart... areas 3.142sqft and 4.1sqft respectively

Unfortunately I didn't build them close enough in wing loading to get a good comparison..
However my opinion is that at the same loading, with more correctly sized elevons on the circle the two will be almost identical in flight...

Except I do think the circle shape hovers better
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap View Post
?? 2 cells ?? I havnt made a lighter version..
the circle as above is flying on 800mA 3 cells and 4ozsqft..
Sorry Dave, that was my error, I should have said the smaller battery, the 500mAh and the lighter Blue Wonder and ESC combo. I amaze myself with my own stupidity sometimes, I just thought wrongly that the 500mAh was a 2s instead of a 3s....
Andy

Anyway, the Circle is still my fav.
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