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Old Mar 18, 2012, 04:34 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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I dont think I posted what started me on the W wing shapes..
it was this
.
When I modified my KFm4-XS-cheap-n-easy, I cut off two tip sections and a bit of wing, then replaced them with bigger tips.. Then I looked at the old tips and the MiniD was born.

MiniD-maiden.AVI (4 min 57 sec)


The delta has a 'W' wing configuration .. The central fuz has a 6mm main layer and 2x6mm directly laminated outer front layers, making a KFm4 section.. The wings have a 6mm main layer with 2x3mm outer layers making a KFm4 section.
The angle where the wings join the fuz is 45 degrees.. and the angle at the top of the fuz is about 125 degrees.
Laid on a flat surface the wing tips measure at 3" up each side..


There are no spars..all depron layers are directly laminated to the main layer using uhu por..
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:31 AM
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Singapore, Singapore
Joined Oct 2011
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Dave, that little delta pioneer looks sweet! I like how it tracks at half throttle! Must give that a try.

Anyways...just an update....never got around to building another Mini Heart after the last one broke due to me trying to hang it on the wall while being lazy at it...hehe, but always wanted to try this design from you and so far I have the 'W' set and the KFm4 all stuck on. Just sanded the LE to shape them and got an idea for some add-ons to give it a little character! Nope won't be a chicken...lol! But will post the finished 'W' wing soon and a video as well! Thanks again for a nice docile relaxed flyer. I have to many 3D like sport planes built and just wanna small little play around plane for those non 3D days! Wingspan on the 'W' in the works is 24".

Till then!!
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 08:01 AM
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United States, MI, White Lake
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I decided to build one also. Mine will be simple. 20" from Dollar tree foam board minus the paper. Kfm2 top section. Single rudder.
I like the 30 degree elevons so I'll use those.
I don't build as fast as a lot of guys (lack of time).
I'll post a video when it flies.
Danford1
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:22 PM
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After Danford1 sugested using just a proper circle for a W wing I thought I had better try it ASAP .. It was the one option I had missed..
So today I made one.. using all 3mm and making it a KFm4 ..I do think the KFm4 is worth the extra effort.. I am pleased with how its gone so far,
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:41 PM
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The model above uses a 24" circle as per my rough drawing..
At the moment as seen above it weighs 4 3/4oz
The tail fin is 5" tall above the W and it slots through going 1" below, to the cross brace, it has a CF rod strengthener sandwiched in the build..Its made from 2x3mm depron layers and there is a cloth hinge also built in ..
The elevons are cut 3.5" in from the back, and angled at 30 degrees going out to the edge..
They are fully clear tape covered..then hinged with more tape
All bend and joins are hot glue(cool melt) beaded or filled.. And at each step when you add risers/spars or outer layers you should check and hold in the angles as you fill with the hot glue..
The wings leading edge is shaped and sanded..
When every thing is fitted , filled and sanded, the joins and bends are further taped over as seen in the pics..
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Beautiful fast work!
I'm curious as to why all the hot glue? That stuff is heavy. I like Gorilla glue. It foams up to fill voids and is very, very light. I spread it on, perhaps with a drop of water or a spritz from a spray bottle, then cover it with tape. The tape contains the expansion. Some will still ooze out on the ends but is easily cut off with a razor blade.
I like it... As with anything else, the more you use something the easier it gets as you develop your own shortcuts to using it.

What motor/prop combo are you going to use?

Danford1

PS Looks like you might be the one naming it. Don't forget to video it...
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 03:45 AM
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Hot glue for speed, and I have never tried the gorilla glue..so I must give it a go
Motor/prop depends on the weight it ends up.. either a Blue wonder/8x4 on 3cells or the next size motor up..or perhaps another Axi like the heart shape uses..

I would like to keep the weight down, for a low wing loading, but this shape results in far less wing area than a similar size heart shape..

the 24" circle is 3.14sqft... the 21" long heart has 4.1sqft.. so the heart shape is likely to have a much lower wing loading...as the components will be much alike..for a similar area I would have needed a 27" circle
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 09:28 AM
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Singapore, Singapore
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So it's a 'W'-utball? LOL!

Nicely done once again Dave! And quick too! I never tried Gorilla Glue though it is available here at the Art Stores. Just too used to Hot Glue for quickness and ease and UHU Por. However when I build with EPP it's UHU Por for the all around felxibility!

My 'W'-wing is coming along nicely and needs a quickie paint job so tomorrow gotta go get the correct color to do it justice...hehe! KFm4 really works well I will admit. I built the W-wing with the main shape cut out flat, marked the lines for where the angle bends are to be, taped the opposing side and did the half-cut and crack open method.
Cut some pieces of scrap at the required angles for the wings and started from the middle section by masking tape them on so the angle is met and held. I then run hot glue down the line. Same goes for the outer wings. Held by the scrap pieces cut at the required angle and taped on so I can run the glue without the wing moving outta angle.
Only the KF laminates were done a section at a time. I used a new sheet of depron for this as the side ends are already straight, so line up that straight piece with the angles and UHU Por it down. Once dry I trim and repeat with the next section.Gaps filled with Hot Glue!

Anyhow, once the paint is done it's the motor mount and electronics! Gonna use the Hextronic 24g 1300kv and some of my bunch of servos which I have to dig outta the drawer! Probably a 9050 GWS since it's a nice thrust combi with the Hex motor which pretty much pulls most of my builds from EPP to Depron. If I keep the builds within 200-250g it works fine!

Will update!!
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 09:38 AM
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Tim, sorry, you can't name it... Dave is the closest to flying and videoing it so he will probably be naming it.
Dave, once named, please credit me for the design. No matter how good or bad it may fly...
Just be perfectly honest in your review. No need to sugar coat it if it doesn't fly well. Tell it like it is. I'll take the blame/credit where blame/credit is due.

Danford1
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 09:51 AM
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All done the 24" circle comes in at 13.75oz with a 500 lipo thats 4.38 oz sqft.. It uses the same power system as the heart shape..
The heart flies at 15.375oz AUW with an 800 so has a wing loading of 3.75 ozsqft..
Both have a removable U/C fitted which weighs 1.5oz..
so without the U/C the wing loading would drop to 4ozsqft..
motor here the Axi 2208/34.. prop a gws 9x5.. running on 3 cells... thrust --more than I need

Predictions...before I fly I will say that it will be fine.. most of my big Nutballs have been between 4 and 5 ozsqft and all go well in the breezy conditions that seem to be always present here abouts.. I know this wont have the same "float" as the heart shape, so would suggest for anyone wanting that "float" go up to 27" dia. on a circle, or simply build the heart..
My only pre flight concern is a worry about the elevons, will they be big enough..
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 10:02 AM
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The MiniD

Dave...

The way the MiniD flies is unreal. It flies so straight and true to the line of flight.
I have made it one of my favorites to watch. The video also reminds me of the many days I spent flying my paper airplanes out doors and watching them sail onto school house roof tops and into trees. Your video brings back a lot of fond memories.

Thank you for that.

Dick
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 11:02 AM
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United States, MI, White Lake
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Here are pictures of mine.
I went with a 'modified' kfm4 wing. The top has a doubled section 50% back.
The bottom has a doubled section 40% back. No build up for extra thickness, just one section glued to the other.
Mine has a 20" diameter and is made from Dollar Tree foam board with the paper covering peeled off. It measures .185" or about 4.7mm thick depron.
Angles are 110 and 135. Elevons are 3 1/2" near the fuse and 30 degrees up from there. That puts the end of the elevon 2" back from the top kfm step.
I will use a Big rudder/vertical fin. It is 7" tall (6" above fuse and 1" below). The rudder is 3 3/8" half circle. The big fin and rudder should turn it if the elevons don't :-) The fin will run all the way up to the kfm step.
My plan is to use a Blue Wonder 1300kv and 8X4 prop. I have both 2S and 3S batteries to try. I do not however have the motor yet. It is still on the slow boat from China... ( I ordered it on Feb 29).
No weights yet as I'm still building.
My plan is to build as much as I can today. If I get close enough to done, I'll steal a motor of another plane and mount it up so I can fly it tomorrow.
I don't have a Blue Wonder so I'll have to use the lightest motor i have which may weigh more than the BW. My battery will be on a velcro strip so balancing won't be a problem.

Danford1
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 12:18 PM
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the fin looks larger than mine, it might be too big, but you can always chop some off later..you will have to see how much weather cocking it does, when the wind blows..

my elevons are much the same measurements as yours ..cut in 3.5 then angled from there..
step positions are not critical, neither is the step depth..directly laminated layers are good...Ive used from 30% to 50% on top and bottom, and 50 top 40 bottom went fine on a V wing..


the mini delta was a surprise, I just made it from two tip sections I removed when modding a bigger model..it has a 40cm span and a tiny motor but it whizzes along and is quite stable.. a lucky accident bonus plane,
It was a combination of this little thing and a KFm4 dart that got me looking at the high angle W shape.. The dart has a very high dihedral and normally flies wth rudder, but when I KFm4'd it the rudder was not effective... so I added ailerons and got a beautiful roll..
The kf does some weird things.. ailerons and high dihedral should never have been that good..

I should get a flight in tomorrow.. good luck with yours..
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 02:06 PM
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United States, MI, White Lake
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Yes, I can always cut it down...
Here are a couple more pictures. I'm waiting for the epoxy on my plywood motor mount to dry so I can add the depron bracing behind it.
I too plan to fly it tomorrow, in fact at 11:00 AM.
Every Tuesday I go to an indoor soccer arena to fly.
I'll have to throw on an E-Flite park 370 as it is all I have at the moment. It is a bit heavy but should have Way more power than needed :-)

Danford1
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Mine is done.

Mine is done and ready to fly.
As i was going to rob a motor from another plane, the door bell rang. The slow boat from China arrived with my Blue Wonder.
I installed it with a GWS 8x4 prop with a 2S battery. it seems to have more thrust than the plane weighs (8.8 ounces). I balanced it at 5" back from motor mount or 25% of the cord. I can adjust the battery fore or aft from there.

I needed stiffer wire and wheels for the landing gear but the hobby shop is closed on Monday's...
I used thin stuff i had on hand. Since no wheels, i just bent skids. it seems awful floppy might bend back under take off.
After I fly it tomorrow, I'll stop at the hobby shop and get some wire and wheels.
Wish me luck :-)
Danford1
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Last edited by danford1; Mar 20, 2012 at 12:36 AM.
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