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Old Feb 25, 2012, 05:39 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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when searching.. go to the blog page for the builder, that is if you can find one of his posts, then look for his threads...then add any prticular thread to favorites so it doesnt get lost untill it gets deleated...

My flying buddy is always telling me of bits he's seen...but then he can never find them again..one day I will get him trained...lol
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 09:15 PM
I don't do Normal
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Canada, NT, Yellowknife
Joined Dec 2011
481 Posts
LoL thanks for the advice perhaps i can get some more
I am building a plain vary much like yours and using a lot of your building tec. i only have 6mm foam and its only 14" wing span so.... i am only using 2 layers with no reinforcement witch has worked grate as far as i can tell. but..... i have a question the 2nd layer should it be on the top or bottom. I'm at the point where i can flip the plain over and create an M wing instead of W. so either KFm-1 or KFm-2
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 05:27 AM
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Go for a top layer KFm2 or don't have any KF if its that small...you want a low wing loading, and going small makes it hard to get one..

my nicest version is my 21" long (second build) ... from all 3mm depron, and with balsa 1/8 x1" under the steps... in effect this has 31 1/2" of wing folded up to make its W shape and with a wing loading of 2.8 ozsqft..it is beautifully floaty
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 02:02 PM
I don't do Normal
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thanks looks like i will be making an M wing LOL
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 03:02 AM
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I dont know how that will go...
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 03:43 PM
I don't do Normal
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Canada, NT, Yellowknife
Joined Dec 2011
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My wing is symmetrical top and bottom. The glide tests I have done so fare look better in the M config so should work well. like I said above its like yours but not the same. basing it on my favorite paper airplane with the prop all the way at the back. I have attached the diminutions if you would like to give it a shot, would go with KFm like yours at 21" wing span like you suggest. probably going to rebuild mine later on. If you put the prop all the way at the back you will need to move or mod the fins a bit to allow for larger control surfaces. if you want to give it a shot and need more info on it let me no.

Should mention I made all of the angles 150* on the one I'm building
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 07:24 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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the short video general flying.. this time with wheels .. this version is the 21" long second model in this thread and is by far the nicest model I fly.. It has knocked my Nutball off its top spot for fun models.. the nutball has been my "most fun" model for a couple of years now..
I only wish the "W" was an easier build.. However its so easy to fly I will only break it if I "mess up" very close to the ground
.
Heart shape 21" long W wing KFm4 ..general flying short vid (3 min 25 sec)


some inverted flying
.
Heart shaped W wing going inverted.AVI (5 min 46 sec)


a longer general flight..
.
Heart shaped W wing general flying... a longer unedited video battery 2 (6 min 9 sec)
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 01:22 PM
Watt Waster
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Joined Oct 2010
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Heat Forming Wings and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw View Post
Dave , Love the design of the Cap-U-Nut !!! Just one question ... Might one be able to heat bend the wing into the required shape ... ? Have done that on my Jerbear Corsair and Potato Chip (crisp) with most satisfactory results ... very strong , light ...
That is an interesting idea and I will have to see what others have done with it. I am way behind the 8-ball on this since I just saw a new video on Youtube of the rounded Capricorn and liked the performance. I love slow flyers and this looks to be another great one. Hope dragging this old post forward isn't going to be a nuisance for anyone as I try to catch-up.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 05:36 PM
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United States, MI, White Lake
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What video did you watch?
Post a link so we can view it.
Thanks.
Danford1
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 03:58 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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Ive now tried all the shapes.. though straight edged deltas to circles for these type of models..
The curved wings are the nicest , deltas fastest..all much as you would expect... more pointy goes fastest.. , slimmer rolls faster etc. .. all the normal results..
In the end this sized heart shape became my favorite..But in the end its all down to your own preferences as to what you want..
No one model will do it all ...
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 08:37 AM
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Here are some more videos from yesterday..
.
note the hit on the goal post at the end.. the battery died as I was doing some slow inverted. a 3 cell 500 battery was being used
.
W wing gets another airing vid 01...14 march 2012 (7 min 16 sec)

.
second battery a 1000mAh
"W" wing second flight 14-3-12 (6 min 43 sec)

.
battery 3 500 mAh low and slow flying
.
"W" wing flight 3 low and slow..touch and go (4 min 42 sec)
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 12:41 PM
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United States, MI, White Lake
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Flying W and Nut Ball varients.

It has been mentioned that the rounded wings ala Heart Shaped W are better than the delta shaped Revolution.
It is also well known how great the Nut Ball is.
Well, why not combine the two? A round W shaped wing.
I took some paper and cut a circle, then folded it in two different proportioned W's. One like the Heart shaped W with the center section split and bent and the outer panel wider. Like starting with 3 same width panels.
The other with both center sections and both outer panels the same width.
Then on one, I bent the elevons on the center panels and the other, I bent them on the outer panels.
here are the two paper proposals. Had I had time, I would make them both say 22" diameter and see which one flies better.
I wonder how different they would turn at slow speeds with the elevons in different locations.
Yes, I could make a 3rd design with all 4 elevons like the Capricorn but that is more complex. Let's keep it simple and talk about the two designs shown.
I don't have the time nor material to make both planes but really, really want to build one. A completely round W shaped plane. The name can be whatever the first guy to build both names it :-)

I kind of like the one on the right in both pictures, the one with all 4 panels the same width.
The angles would be 110 and 135 as was proven to work well already.
The Rudder hinge line on both designs would be at the rear edge of the circle. The rudder itself would hang off the back of the plane. It could even extend down under the fuse like I did on my Scorpio...
What are your thoughts?
Anyone have time to build both, fly both, take videos (important), report finders here then pick a name for it?
I came up with a few names but really want that honor to go to who builds, flies, videos both. We can all keep the names in our heads. Only one name to be revealed by the builder/flyer. My thought - my rules ...
Danford1
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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Good idea
I tried an oval.. thats a nutball circle + the centre rectangular sections added, but this didnt fly as nicely as the heart shape..

I didnt try a simple circle bent to a W so thats definately worth a try...

I use 30 degree swept forward elevons which give increased area for more effect and always work the folds on the same ratio.. divide the span by 3.. then half the centre section..
use the same angles 110 centre and 135 tips as thats the geometry that works best

When I finish my latest kite project I will give this a go.. probably as a KFm4 at 26"-28" on the circle in 6mm.. or perhaps as a 26" using all 3mm depron for a floater
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 11:43 AM
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United States, MI, White Lake
Joined May 2011
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I like it. From the dimensions it will be a 24 1/8" diameter. I think since it will have the Nut ball shape, it will probably require the Nut Ball CG, 25 % or 6".

I read about your semi circle design. I think it may have been unstable as the "moments" were off. It was wider than it was long which isn't a direct problem, but the wing area in front of the CG compared to behind it, could have made it unstable. Like just to much area up front with the short tail moment. The kfm4 airfoil may have worked against you in that design providing too much lift in front of the CG. It may have flown better as a flat plate wing (fully symmetrical).

The heart shaped and delta shapes have less wing area than the oblong in front of the CG. The circle seems to have the right proportions. At a 25% CG it will have exactly 25% wing area in front of it and 75% behind it, since there is no horizontal stab entered into the equation. With the circle, when flying slow straight and level, the elevons are adding to the area keeping it a float. When you "pull up" the elevons not only pitch the plane up but since the lift area is reduced the portion behind the Cg will tend to go down like if the CG were suddenly moved rearward (less lifting area behind it when elevons are deflected up). This may be part of how and why the nutball can loop so tight. Elevons pitching up and tail dropping due to less lift both happening at the same time.


I think you will find the round w shaped plane to be an outstanding flyer... It combines the good traits from the W shape and the good traits from the Nut Ball shape. Your heart design was very close ...

Danford1

PS These are just my thoughts, others will vary.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 03:09 AM
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It was drawn up as a 24" circle but the dimensions tool used on the circle does not always come up correct...its the way SU draws a circle as a number of straight edges
I am certainly going to give the pure circle a go..very soon..and I will start at 25% COG ..
As a note...The heart COG (at 28%) is calculated only using the center of the fuz length.. if you add on the elevons the numbers actually come out at 26% on the full length
The oval I built was not quite right.. It was built too small and came out twitchy, it just didn't go well
At the same time I have been thinking on the rudder...do I actually need a single rear vertical tail fin when the inverted center section is the same as an inverted V tail..
At 110 degrees inverted if I add rudders to each side perhaps I can do away with the present tail fin..
My only worry is that this might upset the front to rear vertical area balance too much and the stability might be poor..

whatever, the first build will be as normal with the single vertical fin sat on top..
And if it goes as well as the heart shape it will be good...
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